May 11, 2007

May 11, 2007
Weekend Page of May 11,12,13.
Filed under: Uncategorized — jtuffy @ 7:38 pm
Ok, people are slacking off, espcially you, you know who you are! : )

235 Comments »
OK, i’m in North Carolina for the weekend, while the brother-in-law is graduating from Duke. Well, im out for halo and the like for the weekend, bummer! Any news, keep me posted, i’ll have some good time to chat at nights at the hotel.

Comment by jtuffy — May 11, 2007 @ 7:41 pm

gaaa ! I wondered about you today! Be careful & have fun!

Comment by Leigh Ann — May 11, 2007 @ 7:50 pm

i’ll try

Comment by jtuffy — May 11, 2007 @ 8:03 pm

North Carolina huh? Sounds fun. I bet you can find some tasty food in those parts. Any big plans while your down there?

Looks like a pretty dull weekend here. Still waiting on construction to start. Hope you all have fun plans.

So, I miss the old blog. What happened? It all went south when Leigh Ann showed up! Hope we can all dedicate a little more time and… maybe try not to go crazy on each other. Let’s keep this positive and keep it going.

Comment by Seth — May 11, 2007 @ 8:31 pm

so, when does construction begin? and what is the first thing that you have to do? DO you help pour the slab?

Comment by jtuffy — May 11, 2007 @ 9:59 pm

We start after the slabs are poured and no, we don’t help with that part. The concreate, plumbing and electrical are all contracted out. The first thing we do is put in the floors. As soon as there are a few slabs poured… we will start work.

Comment by Seth — May 11, 2007 @ 10:08 pm

So Jon where did you say Carrie’s husband got a job? Was it California? What type of job do you get with an MBA? Does he walk right in to being an executive or what? What kinda training or education does an MBA give you?

Are you guys liking PA? or are you ready to get out already?

Well I picked up Slaughter house 5 tonight. They didn’t have it on cd so i’ll have to try it the old fashioned way. might take me a little while to make it through 200 pages. we’ll see what happens this weekend.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 11, 2007 @ 11:00 pm

oh just had an idea. some of you folks keep talking about broadening the user base of our little blog here. We should contact and invite all the old jenks/sapulpa ward folk in. Dave Hale, Nic Guillen, Isaac young, Michael Chia, Joseph Tatum, charles Rushing. I don’t know. What are your thoughts. these folks would probably think we are idiots. think man these smucks haven’t changed a bit in the last 10 years. anyways just a thought. I don’t know if I really wan’t all those folks blogging with us.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 11, 2007 @ 11:06 pm

We should get them involved… but also make a page that just the admins can access, you know… so we can talk about everyone.

You should be fine with SH-5. Besides… you have an extra week since you have allready read The Secret. You could also tell Alyson that you want to read it together, and just keep weaseling out of the reading… just as good as a book on tape!

Comment by Seth — May 11, 2007 @ 11:26 pm

I wanted to let this go, truly I did because some of you guys are a LITTLE sensitive. However, I must finalize some things. Otherwise, we’d all be like a bunch of women that just let things go instead of clearing it up. So since I have a minute before my testosterone boost (from my workout of course), I thought I’d say my final piece (even though I would truly like to debate it reasonably).

First of all, I apologize for putting down what you all believe with your lives (for lack of a better way of saying it - I mean come on, are there words?). I was trying to get under everyones’ skin, but with truthful thoughts. It’s kind of like kidding with the truth. Like calling a fat person fat, but in a joking way. Don’t read into that too far.

With that being said, I want to address Jenny’s concerns. Jenny, there is much I could tell you. I know you didn’t understand what I was doing. I want you to consider that I don’t feel it was my OPINION versus everyone else’s. I believe I was bringing up an EXTREMELY GARGANTUAN issue with the LDS church. Yes I did it in offensive ways, and one thing let to another, but the bottom line was the issue. I think there is a very fine line between having strong faith and having so much faith that you refuse to let obvious problems deter it - by avoiding the truth of the situation and making excuses instead of saying to yourself, “Hey, 10* years ago I NEVER would have thought a mere man could fool the leader of my church. It is the true church, it can’t be fooled anymore.” I believe you guys would have said that 10 years ago before we had direct proof of it. Now I believe you guys think it is “just a test of your faith” and you have to persist. I don’t believe that at all. I believe reality says everything. We cannot REFUSE to accept the TRUTH that the President/Prophet of the LDS church was fooled. I believe he felt that God told him the documents were true (this is all based on my sources that claim he deemed them true, and then purchased them with big bucks. I doubt the church would have supported a known counterfeiter - that’s against the law you know). So now, where does that put me? It puts me as the bad guy because I am bringing to light a subject that no LDS member wants to think about. Why is it so sensitive if it is so reasonable?

You have to keep in mind that religion failed me. I had more faith than anyone knows I had, and it let me down. I couldn’t continue to just keep making excuses when I was beginning to see past all the excuses. So when I beat-up my LDS friends, you can all get offended that I am attacking your church and only think about how that may hurt you, OR you can see it as my ONLY chance of seeing anything different than I do now. In other words, if there is a way to bring me back to faith, then I doubt it will happen with my own thoughts. Debating and fighting with other people may actually bring something else to light for me. Who knows? I believe you would all have a better argument that I am a bad guy for doing this if I were truly doing things like printing “profit” on purpose. Again, that was just a mistake. When I realized Jon’s argument against that, I just thought he had a keen eye.

Anyway, feel free to say something or nothing in response. Overall, I’m NOW trying to be more constructive and less offensive. I don’t blame you for getting upset with me before. Keep in mind that I know I did other offensive things along with this; but also keep in mind that I only addressed one - the main - issue in this post. Let’s all be friends again.

* A little note for accuracy: I believe the Hofmann incident occurred more than 10 years ago, but that wasn’t the point. It was just an example, but still probably true in regards to what you knew and how you felt 10 years ago (maybe not, but you get the point).

Comment by Michael — May 12, 2007 @ 7:03 pm

i’m not an expert on this so the dates may be off, but pres. hinckley might not have been THE prophet or president of the church at the time all of this went down. i don’t necessarily think that excuses anything but it is an interesting argument.

michael, thanks for being cool about the whole thing. i think that this shows me that maybe we could be a little more respectful of each other in every sense because we may be insulting something that another holds very dear. its all fun and games until it is turned on us. i have more to say but i have to run.

i’ll have the internet more steadily next week. peace.

happy mother’s day to all the moms and doms. LOL

Comment by The Scam — May 12, 2007 @ 7:30 pm

Thanks a lot Scam. I really appreciate your comment. I’m glad you wrote.

Comment by Michael — May 12, 2007 @ 7:52 pm

oh, come on, it sounds good, but are we really going to be more respectfull? : ) LOL, Let’s not make this to PC ok! : )

Comment by jtuffy — May 12, 2007 @ 9:40 pm

Yeah, RIGHT, Mr. I-don’t-go-against-the-grain! Your middle name is Peewee, I mean PC!!

Comment by Michael — May 12, 2007 @ 9:57 pm

I doubt we will start being nice. Jon will always thing he is better and more righteous than everybody, Seth will also think he is more righteous and politically correct than everybody, Cameron will always think he is much more educated and sophisticated than the rest of us, And michael will always try to force feed us nutrition guidance and atheism. I on the other hand will just observe from the outside thinking what a bunch of idiots you all are.

So I see tuffy is blogging tonight, wonder if anyone else will make it happen.

How is the hotel tuffy? look under the mattress to see if there are any nudey mags. I have heard business travelers leave them under there.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 12, 2007 @ 9:59 pm

Really, i just checked, only fat heifers gone wild, nothing good under the bed. Peeweee, so you want to discuss male anatomy now! : )

Comment by jtuffy — May 12, 2007 @ 10:12 pm

well you can look at fatso porn. If it doesn’t turn you on its ok to look at. Looking at that would probably make you shrivel up a little bit.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 12, 2007 @ 10:16 pm

also, doms, I don’t think it is safe to say that “religion failed you”

Comment by jtuffy — May 12, 2007 @ 10:20 pm

he didn’t say that. he said his faith failed him. Which is accurate. “his faith” was not sufficient. It is easy to say you were this and you were that. And that you had so much faith. its like me saying I was the best baseball player, and I tried so hard, and put in 100%, but the system failed me. It wasn’t my fault i din’t make it to the pro’s.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 12, 2007 @ 10:51 pm

You’re right, Pence. Think of all the people with the ability to play pro ball, but no matter how hard they try, they can’t get things to fall their way. They just didn’t have the right leaders (for instance) to guide them to maximize their potential and make it big. That means they never had the potential after all. Potential is EVERYTHING, not just your ability IF everything else was in place. Religion is the same. Think of the kid that was born in the wrong family. He is shaped to never even listen to Christians. He hates them like his parents did. God allowed him to be born there, but its HIS fault for never finding his way. You were LUCKY, and I don’t mean lucky that you were able to see the right religion through all that was against it. I mean you were lucky you were born in a place to be influenced and lead in the right direction. You wouldn’t have if you weren’t, and it would have been YOUR FAULT. It doesn’t make sense.

And yes, RELIGION is what failed me. My faith was like a rock, but YOU CAN’T JUDGE THAT SO DON’T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT! Well, I mean you aren’t ABLE to judge that. MY reality is different than yours. It’s ALL in the mind, not outside the mind, and certainly not in your mind. If you see blue as red, then your reality is different no matter how many times I tell you it’s blue, you can only see red. I can’t change that, and I can’t see why.

Comment by Michael — May 12, 2007 @ 11:12 pm

So how did Jenny take the post?

Comment by Michael — May 12, 2007 @ 11:12 pm

faith like a rock huh, i would comment on that one but yo said not to even think about it. I agree, that people are born “lucky” as you call it, but that doesn’t mean much, everyone will have the opportunity to hear and accept/reject the gospel. Why do you think so many peeople join the church through missionary efforts and since we were all missionaries “YOU CAN’T JUDGE THAT SO DON’T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT” because we know the reason. : ) The church sallies forth and will continue to grow with us or without, and look what happens to all the people that try to stop it, nothing, the mobs, assassians, anti-mormons and hoffman’s of the world just get passed on by. Also, another important thing to note, i will admit that i enjoy engaging in religion banter; however, i recognize that it is a thin line and very often does the spirit dictate anything. So the “spark” of ressoning will most definitely not happen in that type of forum, that is why friends don’t teach friends the gospel most of the time.

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 6:46 am

oh and jen didn’t think it was mean, other than that i don’t know since we just went to bed after she read it

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 6:46 am

Man, where is everyone, at church? LOL Well we are still in NC. We decided against going to the university wide graduation since we went yesterday and kirsten hasn’t slept much. Coach K was the commencement speaker yesterday and he was a fantastic speaker, i was quite surprised. He told a really cool story about Michael Jordan.
Well happy mother’s day out there to your wives since you guys aren’t mothers, girls, but not mothers! : )

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 10:29 am

Here is a topic for you. Did you see that a texas town just passed an ordinance that would prohibit landlords from renting to illegals? KaaPow! What are your thoughts on that?

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 10:36 am

No bloggers today huh?

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 12:14 pm

thats a good step. now just enforce employers not giving them jobs, and paying them under the table. these illegal mexi’s shouldnt have any rights. i honestly feel we shouldnt treat them in our hospitals with tax money.

what was the jordan story Jon?

Comment by kramer — May 13, 2007 @ 1:21 pm

i feel somewhat the same, they take billions and billions of our tax dollars each year!

The story was, Coach k was low on the totem pole and he just came off back to back national championships in 91 and 92 and he was selected to be an assistant coach on the 92 dream team for the olympics (this is why he was low on the totem pole). Anyways, he said that jordan came up to him when practice ended and he thought jordan was just going to bust his boys over some jokes or something but jordan asked for the coach to help him for 30 min on his offensive moves, he said that jordan said please and thanks. So Coach k just said that no matter who you are you should always remember names and say please and thank-you. It was a pretty good story and i was really impressed how good his talk was.

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 2:18 pm

Tuffy, here’s your problem - the problem the church has instilled in you so you can further believe everything they teach: “everyone will have the opportunity to hear and accept/reject the gospel. Why do you think so many peeople join the church through missionary efforts…” #1 These are also the people I said are LUCKY to have been born on a complex PATH leading them to be able to hear and accept. It’s a very complex path. Two, it’s absolutely absurd to ever truly believe EVERYONE will get a chance. But, what’s a “chance” anyway? Just because they hear it, doesn’t mean they will have the mental ability to accept it. Many people come from a complex path that will prevent their minds from accepting it. Leigh Ann may or may not be one of those people. I know Curtis Austin and Gavin Thompson (Curt’s cousin) are two of those people. They will NEVER even LISTEN to what they hear about the Mormon religion. Trust me, I know where they come from, I know how they treated me when I tried to get them to listen, and I know how their parents are about it too. So is it their fault that they won’t listen, I mean hey, they got an opportunity to accept it or not. No, they NEVER had an opportunity to accept it or not. Their minds were never capable. That means they never had a chance. The church just says these things so it answers the famous question: “What happens to those people that never hear?” It is extremely easy to say everyone gets an opportunity.

Comment by Michael — May 13, 2007 @ 2:46 pm

It is easy to say because the gospel is easy to understand, its kinda like common sense, it is easy but not everyone has it. See you think everyone should be forced into some mindless state where everyone is the same and they all have the same “mental capacity:

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 2:56 pm

eveyone will have the opportunity, some will accept and others will reject. We’ll leave it to the big man upstairs to sort out if the people were “mentally” able to or not.

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 3:03 pm

Michael, your problem is that you are too focused on the here and now.
This “gimme gimme gimme” attitude isn’t part of the gospel. We taught a lesson on faith today… and it is only after the trial of your faith that you recieve the blessing. Well, we have lots of trials of faith in our lives and many blessings, but you also have to remember that your whole life is going to be a trial of faith and that the real blessings won’t come until after it’s over! Faith means looking beyond the here and now, even looking beyond this life. Everyone may not get a chance here on earth, but there is so much more to “life” than the part here on Earth.

So, Red is red and blue is blue… don’t believe me, check the crayon box. And you can know if someone has faith… in their attitude and actions, how they choose to behave when faced with challenges.

Comment by Seth — May 13, 2007 @ 3:08 pm

exactly truth is absolute

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 3:11 pm

Think about this: You believe it is The True Church. This means everyone SHOULD accept it. This also means, if they don’t, then they never COULD! Obviously, if it is The True Church, then everyone would if they could. So aaaalllllll those that don’t, couldn’t for one reason or another.

We will all choose what is best for us, or at least what we feel/believe is best for us. If the church is True, then it is best for everyone. So, if they don’t choose it, then they couldn’t feel it was best for them, and that’s the only reason they won’t choose it. That means there’s a flaw somewhere when people are incapable of seeing what is truly best for themselves, but it’s their fault?

Comment by Michael — May 13, 2007 @ 3:14 pm

I just want to respond really quick to Michael, and then I’ll leave you guys alone… I appreciate your original comment to mine. However, your latest comments prove my point. I don’t understand why you feel the need to argue with your friends about their religion. Jonathan says you just like to argue, and i guess that makes more sense than anything else. All I was saying is that it would make more sense to me if you were a Southern baptist and were trying to “save” your friends. Why did you feel the need to bring up an “extremely gargantuan” issue? What difference does it make to you or to your friends? So what if this thing did happen, so what if the church isn’t true? Why does it matter to you? And, according to your faith (or lack thereof), why would it matter to your friends?

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 3:21 pm

that last post was from Jenny

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 3:21 pm

When you have trials all the time, and you just continue to persist with faith, you’re really just HOPING it will be true. The “trial” is sometimes your evidence to believe it is not true, but the countering force is faith. Trial + Faith = Hope (don’t just glaze over that, think about what it means). Nothing more since you won’t know until you die and you don’t know a single person that can tell you it’s true. It’s actually easier to believe you are going to be rewarded for persisting. That a higher being is watching you and going to reward you.

Comment by Michael — May 13, 2007 @ 3:23 pm

eactly faith and hope are synonomous! But you don’t have to have trails to have faith, they can strengthen your faith or cause you to waffle, but i don’t think you have to have it.

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 3:25 pm

So what are you “Hoping” for Doms?

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 3:31 pm

Has anyone seen the sweet Halo 3 goodness videos, oh bessy, it is going to be AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!! check it out at ign.com they have pretty good coverage.

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 3:36 pm

Man, what is going on? An Essay!

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 3:41 pm

Well my problem with all this is that I can’t believe that michael is actually this ignorant. I would love to have a real conversation about religion with you. One where you actually cared, and weren’t just trying to argue. I don’t believe that you believe these things you are saying. they are to stupid.

I am sure we would all easily admit that excepting the gospel has come easily for us. And that it is or has been much more difficult for you, and even much more difficult for others like Curtis or Gavin. And maybe we take for granted how simple, easy, and logical it all seems to us. I mean it really just all makes sense. But I think one of the main reason it all makes sense to us is because of the spirit witnessing it to us. Like I tried to explain the other day, it is useless for us to have these discussions, when I don’t believe you are having them in search of the truth, and you definantly arn’t prepared to feel the spirit witness the truth to you. I am sure you have long forgotten it now, but you have felt the spirit witness the truth of the gospel to you in the past. It probably wasn’t the big grand spectacle you were looking for, but I believe you felt and even recognized it at some point. If you wan’t us to help you learn how to feel and recognize the spirit, that would be great. But having these discussions without that being a part of it, is just a big waste of everybodies time.

You should read a book by C.S Lewis called The Screwtape Letters. It will help you understand how crafty Satan is. And how easily he can fool us, and manipulate us. He has spent thousands of years studying this, and has an army of people helping him. And once he finds our weekness he exploits it. C.S Lewis isn’t a Mormon. So don’t worry about that. He just gives a really insightful look into this topic.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 13, 2007 @ 3:42 pm

Jen, I understand your question. I can answer it from a few different perspectives. Most religious people just chalk this up to efforts of Satan. But really, it’s always a battle to prove YOURSELF, not truth of religion or not. In other words, when you choose to not believe in God, your friends think of you as less in one category or another. They think they are above you in this regard. Sometimes this is in an outwardly offensive way, and sometimes it is more subtle. But never is it equal respect of each other. Therefore, it drives me sometimes to prove my reasoning. Sometimes you just want (jon’s texting and distracting me!) to make your friends see you have more good reasons than they give you credit for. This propagates to arguments and determination to prove you are right (from both parties). I think that mostly explains this whole situation. All in all, I want to win, but I don’t want to ruin anyone’s life by winning. It’s a bad situation, but religion has created it.

Comment by Michael — May 13, 2007 @ 3:43 pm

i’m sorry but that makes no sense…poor reasoning. this is jenny

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 3:45 pm

I love to see that Pence is recommending a book! How long is that cd anyway?!!

Comment by Michael — May 13, 2007 @ 3:47 pm

Jen keeps stealing the computer, …. so what are these “good reasons”?

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 3:47 pm

You think way to much michael. Try to be more emotional about it. What do you feel? What do you want? Like Jon said what are you hoping for? Your mind is your weakness. You can’t control it. It just runs and runs and runs till it has taken you down some crazy path. That was your problem all those years with not being able to sleep. You can’t shut your mind off, or control where it goes. You have gotta get the secret. Get some insight into how to control your thoughts and how they effect your actions.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 13, 2007 @ 3:47 pm

Oh snap, that is pretty funny, yes, i was wondering, where did you hear about that book spence?

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 3:47 pm

How does it not make sense? If the people in your immediate atmosphere think less of you for what you choose, don’t you want to show them why you choose it?

Comment by Michael — May 13, 2007 @ 3:48 pm

I am enjoying Pence’s more constructive approach today, mixed with calling me an idiot!

Comment by Michael — May 13, 2007 @ 3:49 pm

Ryan and a couple of other people at work were telling me about it. My dad also said he had read a long time ago and that it was pretty interesting.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 13, 2007 @ 3:50 pm

yep, see, he is taking the positve thoughts approach

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 3:51 pm

Ya I am trying to be more “pc” today. Your comments just got me all hot and bothered the other day

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 13, 2007 @ 3:51 pm

See, michael, you think the world is just out to get you! It really isn’t like that. You are more normal than the typical Mormon, but we press on.

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 3:52 pm

Michael what do you think about my thoughts about your thoughts?

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 13, 2007 @ 3:52 pm

i love when spence uses the term “hot and bothered” it just brings a smirk to my face

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 3:53 pm

brings a smirk to your moms face when I use it too.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 13, 2007 @ 3:53 pm

Let me tell you a quick story. Just ONE more reason I am as I am. Don’t you think I was at my best when I joined the church? If you don’t know, then I’ll tell you…I was. I was ready to do it all (except for go on a mission anytime soon). But one thing in particular really shut me down. It was the day I “received the Holy Ghost”. I was ready to have that. I really looked forward to that day. I didn’t know how I would feel when it happens or afterwards, but I was ready to feel something. I can never explain to you guys how big of a let down that day was. I felt absolutely NOTHING. I couldn’t explain to myself how empty it felt. But, being a smart Christian, I knew to not go by that. I knew to keep telling myself how that doesn’t mean anything. But it plague me big time. I remember reading the scriptures after that, trying to put it aside in my mind, until I finally had to just put the scriptures down and pray my feelings that I don’t understand why I don’t feel a single thing. That didn’t work at all. I was still plagued by it. So I went to Mitch. I did everything I could to get rid of that empty feeling, but it grew into my foremost thoughts. I did my best to avoid all of that. Nothing helped me.

Comment by Michael — May 13, 2007 @ 3:58 pm

Pence, I think you are right. But my mind is my life and reality. Trust me, there are so many things I wish I could change about it (and do try every single day!), but it is an impossible thing to do. I am most open minded after a hard workout. At those times I see things differently, but that is only very temporary. I try to hold on to those thoughts and feeling (I’m not necessarily referring to religious feelings), but once they are gone, Mr. Pessimist is back and in action despite all things! It’s an amazing experience.

Comment by Michael — May 13, 2007 @ 4:05 pm

well you will think this is rediculous or just the typical brainwashed answer. but the truth is you were just looking for too much. You recieved the Holy Ghost, you just didn’t recognize it. It was to subtle for you.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 13, 2007 @ 4:05 pm

A couple things, and i preface this with it isn’t a joke or to belittle but two things. This isn’t really a forum to discuss these two things but i’d just briefly touch on them. 1, You weren’t ready to do it all. You just stated that with the mission comment, and 2, were you worthy to receive the things you were seeking for. Don’t want to get into any details but those are my thoughts

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 4:05 pm

very insightful tuffy.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 13, 2007 @ 4:13 pm

1. I was ready, but I knew it wasn’t required to go on a mission, so I chose to not do it. I was under the impression that is okay. 2. I was a worthy knight! I had given up my life of sin!

I’m enjoying some Beta vids over here! Looks like you can look around your dead body!

Comment by Michael — May 13, 2007 @ 4:14 pm

Regardless of the reasons why I couldn’t feel the Holy Ghost, I was at my best. God must fill in the blanks when he knows it isn’t enough for me. When he knows I’m at and doing my best, and NOW (meaning then) was my ONLY chance! Why would he LET me go when I was doing MY best?

Comment by Michael — May 13, 2007 @ 4:17 pm

The dude that is playing this thing really sucks!

Comment by Michael — May 13, 2007 @ 4:18 pm

1, if you were ready you would’ve gone, remember telling me that you were called to race motorcycles. 2, and as far as a worthy knight, i’d question that but not in public. : ) LOL

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 4:18 pm

I’m telling you Halo 3 is going to be AWESOME!

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 4:19 pm

Yep, it’s gonna b da bomb… the one I kill you with come Beta-Day!

Comment by Michael — May 13, 2007 @ 4:21 pm

Because He knows that you weren’t doing your best. Even if you thought you were.

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 4:21 pm

We’re going to the park, I’ll back in a little bit. Have some good topics for me.

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 4:25 pm

I agree with Jon 100%. If you were worthy, you would have wanted to go on a mission. I don’t know who told you it wasn’t required.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 13, 2007 @ 4:26 pm

I am leaving and will be gone the rest of the day, catch you guys later.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 13, 2007 @ 4:26 pm

Seth, you need to check out my page for an update and tuffy’s post!

Comment by Michael — May 13, 2007 @ 4:57 pm

Tuffy, I may have found a new infiltration point to crackdown on the Shi-Gen! I’m just inches from reaching the next level in two different places! There may be a way to do it!

Comment by Michael — May 13, 2007 @ 5:04 pm

Hey, i’m like, you! I’ll believe it when i see it! : )

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 5:50 pm

Wowzers, take a nap and make some lunch and blamo! …50 comments. I don’t know if ol’ SP has the stamina to keep up with you guys.

Michael, if you were at your best… why not go back? You see that you were at your best, why would you choose to change?

As far as being prepared to do it all and the mission (I know this is getting beat to death)… if you really were prepared no-one could have stopped you from going on a mission. Also, in order to recieve the Spirit you have to go to church every week and participate in the sacrament. I really don’t mean this to be offensive, just as a point of thought… why would the Lord give someone the Holy Ghost if they had already chosen to disregard his commandments. In the Sacrament prayer we learn what is required to have the Holy Ghost… “and witness unto thee… that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him and keep his comandments which he has given them; that they may always have his Spirit to be with them.” It is not too late to come back.

Ok, the Screwtape Letters is awsome. We should read that, or The Problem With Pain for one of our upcoming books.

Comment by Seth — May 13, 2007 @ 6:56 pm

I don’t know why you guys assume I wasn’t going to church and taking the sacrament and such. I was doing everything during that time.

Comment by Michael — May 13, 2007 @ 7:00 pm

But only for a limited time, maybe the man upstairs knew you would give out within just a few months.

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 10:17 pm

What’s the take-home message here? It is the fact that that was my best chance of being in the church, but it never potentiated due to uncontrollable reasons. Only god could have protected me from those things I didn’t understand, but he didn’t. All we can do is the best WE know and understand, god has to do the rest. If he doesn’t, then many potential people will never be saved.

Comment by Michael — May 13, 2007 @ 10:35 pm

That’s correct, the last part of your statement is accruate

Comment by jtuffy — May 13, 2007 @ 10:50 pm

A quote by Elder Dallin H. Oaks (Of the Quorum of the Twelve) after the Hofmann case:

“Are documents ever acquired by the Church and then closed to the public? Of course.”

You guys got me interested in the Church’s perspective. I’m reading a few things rather slowly, but I did confirm Hinkley’s involvement (the purchases), 48 documents were acquired from Hofmann (that is way more than I knew), and the church DID publish and teach some of these false documents. This is one crazy situation that Jenny probably shouldn’t read.

Comment by Michael — May 13, 2007 @ 11:09 pm

first michael how in your right mind could you say you did all you can do. we can always do better. you are just throwing blame everywhere but on youself. i mean just consider for on minute that it was your fault. i can just see you botching up something at a job and giving this big spill to your boss about how its not your fault. you did all you could do and sombody else was suppose to do the rest. its like filing a test at school and thinking you should get an A because you did your best and the professor should have filled in the correct answers for you. i mean really. stop with this poor me i did all i could do and God failed me. that is just retarded.

michael who cares about the documents. people make mistakes. and the prophet is people. there is a very common story about joseph smith where he made a bigger mistake than this. evryone makes mistakes.

and like the quote from seth the church buys docs that we dont see. and i dont have a problem with his. its just like the government doing stuff we dont know about. the general public is on a need to now basis. and thats how it shoud be. you are just beating a dead horse with this topic. i mean thats some pretty weak anti material if thats what your trying to bring up.

so move on to a more interesting topic.

Comment by kramer — May 13, 2007 @ 11:36 pm

Goodness, Spence. Is the LDS church supposed to be led by god or not? Is it supposed to have a true prophet members can trust or not? Is it just a man running this gig that can make mistakes like any other church or not? One minute you guys are saying it’s the one and only true church on earth, the next you’re saying it too can make everyday normal mistakes. It just goes to show, nothing is perfect. You cannot trust your church for everything. You can’t be sure what they do, believe, claim and teach is all truth from god himself. This is the bottom line. So if this church is fallible like every other church, then it is no better. The LDS church can make mistakes, teach false doctrine (Hofmann’s documents), and be fooled by a mere man, but you still believe it is THE true Church. It just goes to show how earthly this whole organization is, not godly. You guys really have no legs to stand on. The only proof available is proof AGAINST the church. Everything else is just feelings! Everyone gets feelings. You should pull away from the church for a year and see how your life DOESN’T change. Good things still happen, bad things still happen.

Quote from Ensign:

“Like other document collectors throughout the nation, the Church has followed time-honored professional practices and relied on competent authorities in document acquisition and with others has been a victim of the deceit and duplicity which Hoffman has acknowledged.”

See how they use regular men to show authenticity? They pray to god to know who the next prophet should be, and god tells them all the same answer. Then they ask a man if the documents are true of god or not. Very convenient. I’m sure they prayed too and still got the same confirmation that the documents were true! There are too many holes to believe god is running this thing. Combined with this knowledge and more, the whole story of Joseph Smith is so unbelievable.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 1:02 am

Don’t cry everyone. I can stop the madness and you guys can keep on keepin on.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 1:03 am

Man, what a poor lost soul. Even through your own little 2 hour research on the internet you haven’t come up with anything. Its not even worth the effort to discuss when no common sense is involved. I liked what seth said, if you said you were the best years ago, what are you now? You are anti because of how bad the church made you feel because maybe you were not worthy at the time. (i’m not trying to make a judgement call, just an observation and a statement of facts). To be worthy of the gifts of heavenly father, you must go through the entire repentance process. I know we have all been there and we all know how difficult it is sometimes. During that time you may not be able to have the inluence of the spiritual gifts and it is easy to become frustrated and upset and turn away from the church, you have to go through the refiners fire. I know when i was going through these rough times, i never wanted to go to church, and actually rarely did it seems, because no one likes to feel guilty, but through repentance you can make it back, and even if it is a long road, it’s the only way back. So i’d be careful about taking the easy way down-hill, because you are getting pretty far off course, and lets say you do want to come back. I seriously doubt a few months of doing your “Best” will be sufficient, nor do i think it was in year’s past(but that is an opinion). It could take years, the way you’re are going. But the beauty is, that there is always, always a way back.

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 7:09 am

Ok, if you expect “God” to come down and hold all of our hands and lead us back to heaven you are in a sad situation. (only a Hindu deity would have that many arms, so draw on your dot and maybe you’ll get the help you need) Look at the apostles in the New Testament. Even as Christ was going through his sacrifice in the garden, his choosen apostles could not stand by because they were too tired. They fell asleep when he asked them to watch over him and pray for him. But did he go out and choose new apostles? The entire New Testament is a correction of the choosen church leaders, because even they make mistakes.

I am tired of the Hoffman discusion and this is why. You haven’t taken the time to learn the principles you need to understand it. Until you are willing to do this, it will never make sence. We have taken the time to learn. When it didn’t make sence we went to church, read scriptures and studied… we qualified ourselves to receive light and knowledge through dilligent effort and faith. When you do this it will make sence to you too, but until then there is very little point for further explanation from our part… and no point in defense. We have nothing to defend, but you are unable of understanding that.

Now, I know you feel like I am judging you in a way I shouldn’t. But, this is a judgement that I can make. If you went through the proccess of diligently and humbly opening yourself to receive truth you would have received it. Take the time to think about this for what it is… a heart felt invitation to repent and learn the truth. We have all done this and know the joy it brings… you are not exempt from this truth and joy unless you choose to be.

Comment by Seth — May 14, 2007 @ 10:36 am

It rains on the just and the unjust. However, none of today’s churches are perfect. Can’t be..humans are involved.

Comment by Leigh Ann — May 14, 2007 @ 11:06 am

Sorry, Seth…I hope it doesn’t go south again.

Comment by Leigh Ann — May 14, 2007 @ 11:07 am

Lol… I’m not to worried. Great comment!

Comment by Seth — May 14, 2007 @ 11:13 am

I give up.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 3:30 pm

Looks like i missed out on a big day.

Michael, i believe that our differences lie in the fact that we tend to see truth as universal and you see it as relative. this explains our general approach to most understandings of the gospel and faith and what not, and i gather from your comments that your expectations and understanding of the gospel is very different and should be catered to an individual specifically. although this is true on some levels, it is not necessarily the way the gospel should be perceived. we can have individual relationships with deity, but that doesn’t change the eternal and absolute nature of the gospel. i think most of your problems arise from this concept.

your comments on blue and red made me think of this, as well as your experience with the holy ghost. just because you expect something to happen a certain way and you think that god should stop bad things from happening doesn’t mean that god is going to change just to cater to you. it would be too easy.

sorry i’m jumping in on the tail end of this conversation. plus, i don’t want you to feel like we are ganging up on you or anything.

Comment by The Scam — May 14, 2007 @ 6:46 pm

michael,

give me your honest opinion about men’s health magazine. it caters to so many of my needs but i was wondering what you thought about the scientific information in it.

side note: i have been going to “step aerobics” and “kickboxing” classes with kressyda at her gym. there is nothing more humbling to have a bunch of moms run circles around you to a 2-2 beat.

Comment by The Scam — May 14, 2007 @ 6:49 pm

Scam, you’re killing me with the moms running circles around you!

First off, I certainly know what it looks like when I say I didn’t get the feelings and such that I expected when receiving the Holy Ghost. And that’s what I told myself then too. But the problem just kept plaguing me that I felt empty - completely. Like I really hadn’t done anything. The guys think I wasn’t worthy, but I was doing everything I could to become worthy (this means I sat down with the Bishop and spilled my guts, two times each with a different Bishop - very, very, humbling, uncomfortable, and difficult). For the life of me, I could not shake my very negative feelings that were growing and growing. I could tell you guys so much more from my perspective, which I’d really like to do someday when we all can sit down and really try to be constructive and respectful.

Now, about Men’s Health. I’d like to know what you are reading about, BUT one thing is for sure. If the writers can’t say something different and intriguing, then they won’t print it because it won’t sell. Money drives the magazine articles, not true science most of the time. One of my professors used to write for Men’s Health. He told me about these problems which made him quit. So, I wouldn’t put too much into those magazines, but it could be a place to start. It’s a good idea to see what they say, then try to figure why they say it and determine if the science really supports it.

I have to eat real quick, but I definitely have some things to say about your step aerobics and kickboxing! If you read this before I get back, tell me what your ultimate goals are. That will help me decide how good or bad these classes may be for you. Have you checked out Seth’s posts on my page? That kid seems to really be getting in gear!

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 7:29 pm

i haven’t had a chance to read those yet. i’ll take a look.

as far as the goals of the classes were, i really was just going to humor kressyda but i realized that just because i can go run for half an hour doesn’t necessarily mean i am in shape. i lift but not nearly hard enough.

i find the classes to be beneficial because of the mutual motivation that comes from working in a group. there’s no way that i’m going to slack off if the lady that had three kids next to me is still ripping it up.

i really just want to be healthy. because i can’t see my insides, i equate healthy with my physical appearance and weight. i don’t want to get buff, per se, but i do want to look nice with my shirt off. because i’m still flabbier than i want to be i feel that my efforts are not producing the results i would like. i don’t think that what i do is very effective, but i don’t have the time or the means to really dive into a significant workout. any ideas.

Comment by The Scam — May 14, 2007 @ 8:09 pm

as far as the holy ghost thing, i felt the exact same way that you did when i received the holy ghost. of course, because i was younger i didn’t understand what was really happening. but i had similar experiences when i received the priesthood, was set apart as a missionary, and became a dad.

i struggled with the lack of electricity that i hoped the moment would produce. i thought i would instantly change and have some sort of major insight into the mysteries of the world. when that didn’t happen i wasn’t disillusioned or disappointed, i was pensive.

here’s what i came up with: the physical acts don’t really do anything to us spiritually. they are symbolic and serve a purpose, but the internal change comes later. of course you won’t feel an instant change when you get the holy ghost, the holy ghost doesn’t work like that. like seth said, its more of a process. if you still have your scriptures try looking up the “holy spirit of promise”. its the idea that through obedience and faithfulness that “magic moment” will come after we prove to ourselves and to god that we really mean internally what we have done externally through actions. this could take a moment or it could take a lifetime.

when i was set apart as a missionary i thought i would instantly want to be perfect and not look at girls and work all the time. it didn’t happen. but being set apart gave me the capability and means to obtain that focus and desire that i would otherwise have been unable to achieve on my own. it just took time and patience.

i hope that wasn’t too much information and more importantly i hope it was relevant.

Comment by The Scam — May 14, 2007 @ 8:20 pm

first cameron. Did you really bring up nutrition.

Second Michael, rap your head around this thought. Your school, and what you are learning is also driven by money. the people donating big buck, are looking for specific results for you guys to find which will in turn cause you to reccomend their drug. Ore your professors who are writing books, know what the people want to hear, so they produce research and results to back it up. I really hope you are not naive to this reality. But I bet its not something you have thought about. I am sure you buy your professors lame story about them wanting to help people, and find a cure for fatness, or anything other than their real financial motivations.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 8:30 pm

My body burned like a 600% furnace, and in an instance I understood all the mysteries of the world.

thats not what happened to you guys? I must have been more righteous.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 8:35 pm

If you ask me, and you are, you absolutely can NEVER reach full potential of health without a scientific, hormone-stimulating resistance training program. Menstrual cycle. I MEAN “PERIOD”!

As you get older, age-defying hormones progressively fall UNLESS you workout properly. Without this kind of workout, your high threshold motor units (referring to certain nerves and the muscle fibers they innervate) will not be stimulated and they will die. This leads to less strength and slower movements as you get older (we see this all the time with older people). This includes women as well. Plus, your bones will be weaker, and women are usually at more risk of this because of osteoporosis (hint, hint, Kressyda). Right now, in your 20s, you and Kressyda are reaching your bone strength peak which will fall from here until you die. Training properly can result in a much higher peak and reduce the falls over time. It’s an essential component that most people neglect. Those are some basics of resistance training, but keep in mind it takes specific kinds of training to produce these results. In other words, just lifting heavy weights doesn’t mean you’ll get these benefits maximally.

Now, can you dedicate one hour, three times a week to resistance training? If you can, then you can make all the changes you want (most likely). I got the way I am on this frequency and length of training. It just takes the right program and diet.

The step aerobics and kickboxing classes WILL NOT provide the benefits listed above. You will never simulate the high threshold motor units, your bones will not strengthen, your muscles will not strengthen, major hormones (e.g., testosterone) will not be stimulated, your shirt will never come off, and you will not avoid osteoporosis or sarcopenia (death of muscle fibers and motor units).

After hearing all of this, what are your thoughts? Surprisingly, aerobic exercise should be the first to take a backseat to dieting and resistance training. Let me know where you stand now.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 8:39 pm

ok, we are watching the office right now, it is really funny, when andy floated off in the sumo suit, that was clasic.

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 8:44 pm

yeah, way to go cameron!

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 8:46 pm

Yes, Scam. What you said is very relevant (your spiritual experiences). That does make sense. We should talk about other problems too. If the other problems weren’t so big too, then I could see living as you just described.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 8:46 pm

all right, our first 100 blog post! And it only took 4 days! LOL

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 8:47 pm

I think this needs repeating

Cameron did you realy bring up nutrition?

Sweet Moses, Brother Bear, Mother Theresa.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 8:48 pm

I once ate 24 hotdogs to get a Job promotion.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 8:50 pm

lol!

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 8:50 pm

I think Smengler had it all wrong… I am more sophisticated than you guys and Scam is way more PC, though we are both definantley more spiritual (did you read this guys posts?) Anyway…

I think what Cam had to say was great. I went through a very simular feeling when ordained to the priesthood. When I was made an Elder, I did have a feeling of excitement but it was short lived and left me feeling empty. I realize now that it was an emotional response to my parents and others being so proud of me. But I also believed the promises made to those who hold the priesthood, decided that I wanted the fulfillment of these promises and dedicated myself to preparing to recieve them. When I went to the temple for the first time, I had prepared myself and brought my life more into harmony with the gospel and I did have an amazing experiance. It is a life long effort though… I have had ups and downs since then, but I still strive to have faith by acting on the knowledge I have received. The downs seem to get lower, but the memory of the last high point and the hope of another makes them easier and easier to pass through. And those high points just keep getting better and better.

You made one other coment about repentance that stood out to me. It is much more than confession. Alot of emphasis is placed on this aspect and it does require great humility… but it is just the beggining of the process. If you are interested, I would love to talk to you about it further.

As far as my dedication goes… I’m not sure I have as much as you think. I had a sunday today that would rival Jonny “Glucose”’s abilities. I still feel a little sick from eating it… bleh. Rachel had a party for her club at school and brought home all the leftovers. This is my biggest problem, if I have easy access to it… I’ll eat it. I have asked Rachel to stop buying and making sweets, but she is unwilling to because she can eat them without swelling the way I do. Oh, well… all I can do is keep trying.

Comment by Seth — May 14, 2007 @ 8:51 pm

My “yes” in the previous post was not to concur with tuffy, as I know he was being sarcastic. Just for the record.

Spence, you would lose a lot of money if you bet that I haven’t thought about the money. However, it doesn’t exactly work the way you think it does. There is way more to it than just reading one article that finds one thing and saying it’s true! If research didn’t work, then doctors could never help people. Why don’t you wrap your head around that!

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 8:52 pm

Swelling? What are we talking about SP? Yep, see health is relative, it doesn’t affect rachael the same way it does you, that is why somehow i can handle the glucose baby! LOL.

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 8:54 pm

Leigh ann - just saw your comments, yes it does rain on everyone’s parade, but we believe the church is perfect, the people aren’t.

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 8:57 pm

Seth, I knew you hadn’t exactly hit it hardcore just yet, but you ARE doing all the right things. You are on your way to finding your way. This too takes years of working towards. It’s okay to have a sunday once a week if you do everything else right, just so you know.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 8:58 pm

Not swelling on the outside doesn’t mean she’s still as healhy as she can be. I hope you guys don’t think that way.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 9:00 pm

That is kinda what we have been saying about the gospel Doms! “You are on your way to finding your way. This too takes years of working towards.” This is when you were at your “best”

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 9:01 pm

Plus, aging will start getting to the people that think “they can get away with eating junk all the time.”

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 9:02 pm

No, duh, tuffy. That’s what I was saying, dork. Are we going to crackdown on the Shia-Gen or what? We need to do that before Halo 3!

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 9:03 pm

how do these conversations always seem to return to michael

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 9:05 pm

Don’t be a hater, tuffy. Hate the sport, not the player.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 9:07 pm

when the player has a sharpie in his sock, it’s a different story! : )

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 9:16 pm

If you can have a sunday once a week… I’ve had my share for the next 3 months! Rachel had like 2 gallons of icecream leftover. lol

So, right now this is the biggest part of my health plan. I have a bunch of pictures of me from the mission (weighing in at 175) sitting next to the computer and I just look at them everytime I sit down and think about how good it feels to be healthy (physicaly, spiritualy and emotionaly.) And, everyday… I am a little more motivated! The power of attraction at work.

So, we are gonna all finish SH-5 this week and read the secret next week? How do you guys feel about reading a CS Lewic book after that? And, Posedown, are you ever gonna broaden your horizons and join in? I can understand prefering non-fiction… but I think that statement is negated by the amount of videogames you are throwing down!

And as far as academics and scientists rolling in the dough… lets be realistic! There are a few wealthy ones out there… but most of these folks don’t get in the buis to make bank.

Comment by Seth — May 14, 2007 @ 9:17 pm

I just finished SH-5 this morning! It was a really good book, you know why, cause i wanted it to continue, he had so many tangents going on there and he left so many things open, i wished he would have tightened it up a bit! It got real intersting towards the end but it felt like kurt was just trying to rush to the finish line!

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 9:22 pm

Where’s my post? Oh, there it is.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 9:25 pm

Actually it’s still not there. Here it is again:

About the fictional books, it’s like I said to Spence and Jon, I watch tv for the fiction!

And Seth speaks the truth about the scientists. Plus, the difference is, science articles are peer-reviewed and they will not be published if they don’t have backing science. Magazine articles have no limits as to what they can print.

Seth, we have to get you away from the junk. That’s way too much. I know you know that, but let’s do it once and for all! You are running out of youth, which is your biggest buffer!

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 9:27 pm

I think tuffy absorbed that post the first time I submitted it.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 9:28 pm

what a bunch of blah blah blah.

Yes michael you always turn the conversations to yourself. thats why you like talking about nutrition, because you think your fooling us into believing you are talking about or focusing on other people, but really your using it as an avenue to talk about yourself and make yourself feel better.

seth its not the professors who are getting rich. I am sure some of them are, But it is the school getting the big donations. the the heirarchy of the school then puts the pressure on them to do one thing or the other. Its the same with doctors or hospitals. they are reccomending spedific drugs for a reason, and its not your health. Its just how the world works.

I am having a hard time getting into SH 5. it is just random babble. most of it is just out in left field. I guess the guy is doing this on purpose. It’s like those artist who just sling paint on canvas in any random way and call it art. this guy has just slung a bunch of words together and called it a book. And thinks its good because because lots of people die, then he can say “so it goes”

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 9:36 pm

Well, I guess Pence is going to have a big problem in just a few years when he has to be rushed to the hospital and they can’t help him because it’s all about the money.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 9:39 pm

Science is like the bible, you can prove anything you want with it. And you can prove the oposite with it also. There are very few scientific nutritional facts where the oposite can’t be also scientifically proven.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 9:39 pm

Name one, fat boy!

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 9:40 pm

wow, what are you 7

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 9:41 pm

Can’t you prove you’re right to a 7 year old?

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 9:42 pm

well we can take your latest fad. The one you are the most confused about right now. the one that some drug company has paid your school lots of money to “scientifically prove” The atkins diet. and yes thats all it is. Sure your professor put a few minor adjustments in it, but just copied Dr atkins. there is plenty of science on the other side of that. I am sure you won’t believe it since it didn’t come from your little podunk college.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 9:44 pm

What, are you on the internet trying to find one single thing?

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 9:45 pm

and did you really resort to name calling, because your juvenile mind couldn’t think of anything better to say.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 9:45 pm

Actually, you should read the articles against the low carb diets. They can’t prove against it.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 9:47 pm

I mean come on, we’re just back to the common sense issue again. Common sense would tell you that a diet of cheese, lettuce, protein powder, and steroids isn’t the best option.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 9:48 pm

like I said the articles you are being spoon fed at your little college.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 9:48 pm

Are you fat? Yes. Am I? No. Do I use science to avoid getting fat? Yes. Do you use science? No. Could I predict your fat from the science I know? Yes. Just proving my point here, you are a great example.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 9:49 pm

Oh, goodness. No one gives me the aricles. I have access to every article of every journal myself.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 9:50 pm

you have actually just proven your ignorance.

you would be skinny regardless of what you ate or what you did. Are you actually too stupid to realize that. You only have the body you have partially from your habits. There is no way you are to uneducated and ignorant to realize this

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 9:52 pm

Pence, prove you’re right. Get lean, buff, and ripped with just your common sense. Promise you won’t read a single thing or ask anyone. Then I’ll quit everything and follow you instead.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 9:53 pm

you actually were probably healthier 3 years ago before you started your extremism. you look like a freak now. Its not healthy to not have a neck. And you can deny it forever, but we all know you have been and probably still are popping steroids. you are much too stupid and lazy to achieve anything without it. And you don’t look all jacked up like you without them.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 9:55 pm

do you promise you would do that.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 9:55 pm

You know, that’s an interesting comment about me being “skinny”. Maybe it’d take me a while to get huge, but I’d have MUCH more fat than I do. Trust me, just one month ago I had reached a new level of fat. As I am aging, I’m losing my natural ability to keep the fat off. I’m now back to lean and mean!

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 9:56 pm

how good is your word? What would you have to talk about if you didn’t spend all your time and energy being extreme

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 9:56 pm

Heck yeah! Do your thing, make your promises, and show me how it’s done!

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 9:57 pm

all the bum sex with the itallian got you motivated again?

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 9:57 pm

I’d probably move to Utah to be with you, join your business, and try to learn from your common sense.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 9:58 pm

well I don’t believe you. I can’t believe you don’t think I could get healthy with my own common sense. Its not brain surgery. Eat less, eat better things, exorcise. do this consistently and thats it.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 10:01 pm

Diabetes mellitus increases the risk of developing cardiovascular disease, and most type 2 diabetics in the United States are overweight. Thus, for most of them, top precedence should probably be given to the calorie content of the diet in conjunction with the diet’s ability to satisfy the desire to eat. It appears that reducing the intake of calories, saturated fat, trans fatty acids, salt and cholesterol; and optimizing both fiber intake and exercising are each more important in type 2 diabetes than are the CHO quantity, CHO percentage and cumulative GI of the diet. With type 1 diabetics it is likely that regularity in daily CHO consumption in terms of quantity and sources helps to limit blood glucose concentrations.

http://www.lowcarb.ca/articlesb/article307.html

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 10:05 pm

No. Finishing up my bachelor’s degree was very tough. I was doing research, working out, dieting, studying for finals and the GRE, applying for grants (which was incredibly time-consuming), applying to graduate school, taking the GRE, and finishing up projects for some classes. Something had to give and it was my workouts and diet for the first time. Surprisingly, I couldn’t get back on track. I’ve struggled ever since because my whole lifestyle is so different now and I am a routine kind of guy. I got FAT! I lost muscle! I just dabbled in dieting and working out. It wasn’t until somewhat recently that I was finally able to get back on track hardcore again. I’ve now lost most of the fat and gained most of the strength back. I’m still lacking on the strength, fitness level, leanness, and muscle. However, I’m on my way back, no doubt. I’ve reconnected with that part of myself. Now I feel amazing again.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 10:05 pm

just basically says the low card diet is over rated. its not actually the healthiest thing.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 10:05 pm

My post hasn’t shown up again…

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 10:06 pm

wowzers this thing is getting crazy! What is with the name calling doms?

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 10:06 pm

Oh wait, it was there.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 10:06 pm

yep, low carb is a craze, it will pass and different studies will come on saying that the glucose diet is the best!

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 10:08 pm

are you monkey’s looking up ridiculous articles to prove points

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 10:10 pm

I told you guys, it was true and an example.

Pence, you’ve proven me wrong. Oh wait, you didn’t. You only found some website that makes speculation and claims, not proving anything. There is ample research, biochemistry, and physiology to prove their claims absolutely incredibly wrong. You have to be a complete idiot to think that eating carbs (the ONLY nutrient not required to live) is the answer to the problem IT CAUSED IN THE FIRST PLACE!

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 10:10 pm

and where did seth go?

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 10:11 pm

The grain of truth
If there is a grain of truth to his claims, it is that eating simple carbohydrates — white bread, pasta and bagels, for example — seem to raise insulin levels, a risk factor for type 2 diabetes.

“There is some benefit in not eating simple carbohydrates,” Ornish said. “The goal should be to eat more complex carbohydrates,” which are high in fiber.

Studies have shown that fiber — in short supply in the Atkins diet — can improve the body’s response to insulin. Protein and fat, Ornish noted, have been shown to raise insulin levels in the blood.

Another criticism is that restricting carbohydrate intake can lead to a sometimes dangerous medical condition known as ketosis, in which the body eats its own fat. While this may sound like dietary nirvana to some, it can change the blood’s pH balance.

Atkins disputed the notion that the levels of ketones produced by his diet are dangerous. Ornish was not convinced.

“You can lose weight on chemotherapy but that doesn’t mean it’s a good way to do it,” Ornish said.

Kennedy provided statistics from a government study of about 5,000 Americans who stuck to the food guide pyramid. About 20 percent to 30 percent of their calories came from fat; about 55 percent from carbohydrates; and 15 percent from protein.

Both men and women who followed the government’s advice had a lower body mass index — a measurement of a person’s weight in relation to their height — than people on a low-carbohydrate diet.

“Unequivocally, I can say the reason Americans are getting fatter is that they are not following the advice of the USDA,” Kennedy said.

“The evidence is clear: long-term weight loss is slow and steady, with a dietary pattern that can be sustained over a long period of time,” she added.

http://www.lowcarb.ca/articlesb/article321.html

I could post these all night long if you want to. the point is you can prove both sides.

and you arn’t and have never really been busy. That is a lame excuse. if you were doing what you were doing and working 30 hours a week I would agree. But you just chose to play halo and sit around instead

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 10:11 pm

why are we talking about nutrition anyways, aren’t you going there studying kisseology or something?

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 10:12 pm

Why do you guys think low carb is a craze? Actually, I’ll tell YOU why. Because you live in a “developed” society where it’s normal to load your blood with sugar numerous times a day! So of course it’s crazy to you when someone says “low carb”. Low carb is relative to today. Not relative to many, many years ago when they didn’t have carbs and sugar readily available.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 10:13 pm

yep, i loved the chemo therapy quote, that was rich, and i agree, we could post articles claiming this study and that study are true and monkey’s feeces make our hair shinnier but “you can’t prove anything when it comes to health, you can only show results of what you are testing” a famous quote, it just matters what you are trying to find.

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 10:15 pm

once again, i bet we could look up articles going back to king tut on carbs and sugars.

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 10:16 pm

Ok well I have proven all 3 of my points.

1. you can prove anything with science.

2. all michael wants to do is talk about nutrition. No matter what he will find a way to lead the conversation back to that. It is the only thing he cares or thinks about in his extremist little life. He has no idea what real life is all about. Has no idea that there is so much more to life than eating cheese and steroids. He thinks we care about what he has to say about nutrition science. unbelievable

3. Michael is ignorant.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 10:17 pm

First of all, did you pay attention to how the BMI is calculated? You might be interested to know that I am considered OVERWEIGHT on the BMI scale! You have to know more than what they are telling you in order to judge things correctly.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 10:20 pm

bowel movement index?

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 10:21 pm

cause that is full of crap

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 10:22 pm

lol

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 10:22 pm

You didn’t prove a single thing except that there are people against the low carb diet. They have no real proof. BMI is no measurement to throw everything away on. Plus, even in the major journal articles against low carb, they still admit that you lose more weight quicker on the low carb.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 10:23 pm

michael don’t you get it we don’t care about about your nutrition crap

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 10:23 pm

you can lose weight on chemo too!

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 10:25 pm

what does your mom think about all this stuff.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 10:25 pm

maybe we should get her input on your religous beliefs also

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 10:26 pm

They said fat and protein can stimulate insulin. Very, very true! But they leave out the details on that! Like the fact that it is much, much less insulin than an equal amount of carbs would stimulate, AND the fact that protein without carbs stimulates growth hormone, while carbs suppress growth hormone. Do you know what growth hormone is good for?

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 10:26 pm

Remember, you’re killing my mom if you do that. I guess you really do think I’m 7 and my mom can make me go back to church!

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 10:28 pm

again, we don’t care about your nutrition crap. Its just a bunch of opinions. most of these are your opinions so they don’t matter

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 10:29 pm

man this is escalating fast, i can’t keep up.

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 10:30 pm

killing your mom? just be honest. it is all for selfish reasons as to why you are lying to your mom.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 10:30 pm

Well, then you can find MY opinion in any biochemistry or physiology book!

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 10:30 pm

i bet it doesn’t state that low carb diets are the optimal way to live. Bet you a hundred bucks

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 10:31 pm

what does your mom think you are just inactive. she doesn’t know you just baught into a bunch of silly anti crap.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 10:32 pm

Name one thing I have to gain by lying. If you only believe one thing that ever comes out of my mouth, it’s the fact that my mom could not handle the truth. I’ve seen it for myself when she got a HINT of it until I set the record straight with a fat lie.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 10:32 pm

What was the lie?

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 10:34 pm

Money money money. your not living for free. mommies credit card is very benificial. And mitch’s checks keep on coming. and you are embarrassed to tell her you were fooled by wacky anti stuff

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 10:34 pm

The funny thing is, tuffy, they do! I similar thing you can relate to: They show the exact biochemistry of anaerobic glycolysis. You see all biproducts that are produced. NONE of them produce “Lactic Acid”. However, then you’ll read a worthless paragraph about lactic acid and how it is produced during anaerobic glycolysis! This is an example of two perspectives that merge in these books: 1. the science (not supporting lactic acid), and 2. the long-lived belief without proof!

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 10:35 pm

i was just thinking how bloggin is very funny, it is amazing how your thoughts just come out, stuff you would never say in person or over the phone, why is it easier to type?

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 10:36 pm

you are scared the money tree would die if they knew the truth. Your a con artist. you are making them think you are somebody your not ,so they will give you money and respect

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 10:36 pm

You know, pence. I have more money available through my anit-mormon dad that HATES the thoughts of me being mormon! So eat that!

The lie is just that I am not having problems with religion.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 10:37 pm

I would rather go broke, drop out of school and live in a gutter while working at McDonald’s for the rest of my life than to have my mom find out the truth! That’s how big of a deal it is. I only lie for her.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 10:39 pm

There is always a rebuttal so here it goes….

The funny thing is, Doms, they do! I similar thing you can relate to: The Book of Mormon shows the exact sprituality of progression. You see all biproducts that are produced. NONE of them produce “Satanism”. However, then you’ll read a worthless anti-mormon paragraph about crazyiness and how it is produced during unworthyness! This is an example of two perspectives that merge in books: 1. the mind(supporting lactic acid), and 2. the long-lived belief without proof (faith)!

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 10:39 pm

Tuffy, did you understand that my 183rd post was in reference to your 178th post?

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 10:40 pm

lying doen’t help your mom, she’ll find out sooner or latter, in this life or the next.

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 10:41 pm

is your dad the fool who fooled you with the anti mormon stuff. and i am sure you have money coming from both directions.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 10:41 pm

Props on that one, tuffy!

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 10:42 pm

yes i did get that. my rebuttal was a spin on how you view our truths

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 10:42 pm

I am glad tuffy is on here, so I can just say what he wants me to say. He has complete control over me. I am just saying all this to try and please and impress him.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 10:44 pm

how come you are always thinking you are protecting people or helping them out? like with your mom, and nutrition and the eggs in ben’s car?

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 10:44 pm

No, I defied my dad’s anti-mormon stuff. He influenced me against mormons first, then I did my own studies and praying. I took a big chance by going into the church under those circumstances. Let’s assume I get big bucks from both sources. I could still get all the money I need from my dad if I didn’t get it from somewhere else. I’d rather my mom find out in the next life, rather than find out now and send her there.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 10:44 pm

very funny

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 10:45 pm

I’m sensitive I guess.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 10:45 pm

Who’s going to be #200?

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 10:46 pm

sensitive to what?

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 10:46 pm

Sensitive to other people. YOU DID IT TUFFY!

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 10:47 pm

and i thought that there wasn’t going to be a next life, might as well tell her now.

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 10:47 pm

it wouldn’t kill her, it would just dissapoint her. she would lose respect for you. it wouldn’t devistate her like you think it would. And how much worse will it be to find out after years and years of lying. to find out you have been lying for all that time. that will make it hurt that much more

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 10:47 pm

yeah, would you like to know that brooke is cheating on you at this very moment or find out 20 years later that she had a 5 year affair?

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 10:48 pm

Nope, you are 100% wrong, as usual pence. I already explained that I have seen the results of her knowing. She was sciently tortured. She confessed it to me after I set it straight. No sleeping and other major issues.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 10:49 pm

That’s a little different tuffy. I wouldn’t want to convert her after that.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 10:50 pm

So whats the deal Pence? Do we have a deal on your common sense diet? If so, what is the time frame you need to reach these results according to your common sense?

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 10:52 pm

well i think its money, money, money.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 10:52 pm

What is money?

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 10:53 pm

how bout this, i’ll follow your plan to a T for 45 days doms (no juice plus though, that is garbage) if you follow my routine? Deal

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 10:55 pm

What is the name of Moses is your routine?

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 10:56 pm

what

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 10:58 pm

having a job, reading, praying, church, family home evenings, bearing of testimony

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 10:58 pm

I may be sensitive, but I don’t care about your health that much!

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 10:59 pm

Although I sure could bear a testimony!

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 10:59 pm

give me a year michael. the problem is probably with what you think is healthy. I am not going to look like I am all hopped up on roids.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 10:59 pm

exactly, you like to take the easy road. Its too bad, a waste really

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 11:01 pm

Let me guess… Because you don’t “want” to look like that, right?

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 11:01 pm

sweat hinckley!

100 posts in 2 hours! I haven’t read all of them yet… just had to comment about Spencers abstract art statement. The splaters of paint aren’t random at all… just like Kurt’s words.

Comment by Seth — May 14, 2007 @ 11:01 pm

You were just setting me up for that!

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 11:01 pm

well, i’m off to bed, so i think we should set some ground rules for the blog, no more anti-religion or nutritional talk on the main page, if you want to go off and have little conversations, by all means….

all in favor????????????????????????????

AYE…. aye AYYEEE.

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 11:03 pm

seth you are way off topic.

of course I don’t want to look like that. I will be very muscular and healthy. but not 3 percent body fat with no neck.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 11:03 pm

Sold! The aye’s have it!

Comment by jtuffy — May 14, 2007 @ 11:03 pm

I agree. no more of either of those on the main page. we have beat both topics to a pulp.

and I am off also. too much blogging for one night.

I have nothing else to prove.

sorry seth, you came in a little too late. I am sure you would have had some good imput.

michael I will consider your deal.

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 11:05 pm

You tell me what you expect to accomplish and how long it will take. If I agree it is good enough, then it’ll be a deal.

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 11:06 pm

ok I’ll let you know.

later

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 14, 2007 @ 11:06 pm

Alright, but the blogs are gonna drop back to the teens everyday…

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 11:06 pm

Seth, you killed me with the “sweet hinkley” post!

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 11:08 pm

I love it when Seth gets blamed for something I said!

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 11:13 pm

The funny thing is that you, Michael, are getting blamed for me bringing up nutrition. Guess we better stick to your page for all that buisness.

Yea, I was thinking about the phrase “holy Moses” and wondering if it was appropriate… and decided the only way to see was to use a phrase with our beloved modern prophet. I want everyone’s feedback. Gotta say, I like it so far. It’s catchy and got a nice ring to it.

One last observation. It’s funny that Spence can accuse Michael of being ignorant because of his name calling and then start calling names in the same breath! Kinda funny.

Comment by Seth — May 14, 2007 @ 11:24 pm

Sorry I missed all the action. Michael, send me an email with your phone number… I wanna talk to you about all this nutrition stuff and no one else wants to hear it… lol

Comment by Seth — May 14, 2007 @ 11:26 pm

Good call, Seth. And I’m all for “sweet hinkley”! That one killed me! And Seth’s right, I took many names before I gave any!

Comment by Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 11:58 pm

you guys wanna go on a date this weekend. You homo’s

Comment by Frodo Baggins — May 15, 2007 @ 1:12 am

Wait… Michael, I didn’t say you didn’t start it. You totaly descended to the level of a 7 year old first. There you go thinkin’ your a martyr again. Poor Michael, picked on by the world.

Comment by Seth — May 15, 2007 @ 2:38 am

Just one last comment to get my 2 cents in, here is the best diet/plan/whatever…………….wait for it………………. just pick one, eat good and exercise. The toughest part is following through. If you do pilates with daisy fuentes you’re going to be in alot better shape if you stick to it!!!! Following through on a diet/exercise plan is the key. Yes that was a period. . . .

Comment by jtuffy — May 15, 2007 @ 9:03 am