April 24, 2007

April 24, 2007
Tuesday April 24th 2007. “OH SNAP!”
Filed under: Uncategorized — Jimmy Hostility @ 1:31 am
Well yesterday was there was some very exciting blogging. I was Rofloldebstsdenblol all day long. Isn’t it quite funny how much easier to say these things over the computer rather than in person. Me and the misses had an argument through text messaging the other day and it was very effective. You guys should try that out. You could also try getting naked as soon as the argument starts. Its impossible to stay angry that way. It’s a little awkward when an argument starts at target. So anyways. So as to not cause any crying today lets keep the blogging nice and friendly. maybe we could say all the nice things we can about each other. LOL Well I gotta run to a “meeting”. Happy blogging.

61 Comments »
Booooo! That’s no fun. Lets talk about social moralism. That is, society teaches us how to behave and if we didn’t have society telling us what to do we would be baddies. That is the whole concept taken from the Ring of Gyges (which i didn’t get to in my talk). You know the whole nurture vs. nature thing. ……… I think it is a combination of both but heavily favored on the inbedded sense or “spirit” we are born with to be moral and ethical. I would argue that society teaches us about immorality and if it didn’t, we would not have all the immoral activity that persists today. How bout them apples.

Comment by jtuffy — April 24, 2007 @ 7:50 am

Why do you assume that all spirits are good? Are our Spirits not in control of our bodies? So, do sin and pride come from the spirit, or from the body and world? Is the statement, “the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak…” acurate?

Comment by Seth — April 24, 2007 @ 9:58 am

Well, i had the word spirit in ” ” meaing, i was talking about the common sense, power of discernment, light of christ kind of “spirit”. The born ability to know what is right or right, universal ethics and morals. Of course there are evil spirits out there. And yes i’d say “the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak” is accurate, sometimes our physical limitation hinder our spirtual intentions.

Comment by jtuffy — April 24, 2007 @ 10:12 am

You guys are dreaming. EVERYTHING about who you are is a result of genetics + outside stimuli. There’s nothing else to it. Everything physiological and psychological.

Comment by Michael — April 24, 2007 @ 10:18 am

well ladies I don’t know the answer to this one. I agree that society teaches us the “baddies” to do. It is also possible for there to be bad spirits born onto the earth. I don’t know if they are neccecarily morally bad people though. Probably just more prone to it. People who have addictive personalities for example. At the same time aren’t we taught that everyone is born with the light of Christ, which gives them the ability to know right from wrong. So it is probably a combination of all of it. I would say I think the most influential though, is society and parenting.

And Jon your a lazy, dirty, ignorant, cleveland steaming piece of crap that nobody likes.

Just thought I would continue the theme from yesterday also.

Comment by Jerry Johnson — April 24, 2007 @ 10:26 am

LOL, I knew it was only a matter of time before Mr. Science showed up. I know that is not the case.

Comment by jtuffy — April 24, 2007 @ 10:31 am

funny story. You know how I like to call people by random names. this is especially funny to people you don’t know. And even more funny when the person is wearing a name tag. I think people are quite offended by it. Yesterday at jasons deli, we were paying for our food. this retard was overcharging us and he couldnt figure it out, so i just payed the extra. we walked away and then realized he didn’t give us our drink cups. So I walked back over to him and said “hey Jimmy we need our cups. He said with a very offended voice “my name isn’t Jimmy, here are your cups” I just laughed and walked away. So you guys should try this out. its pretty funny. To me anyways.

Haboo out !!!!

Comment by Jerry Johnson — April 24, 2007 @ 10:32 am

Dirty, huh, you’re the cracker!

Comment by jtuffy — April 24, 2007 @ 10:34 am

Spence, elvis, Jimmy, Johnson, whatever you are today, What is the deal with the BYU Cheney situation? That is hard to believe to me.

Comment by jtuffy — April 24, 2007 @ 10:41 am

What I think is funny is that you guys think you know right from wrong from the time you are born. Now this is comedy! The only time you know right from wrong is when it obvious, but guess what? Sometimes you’re not even sure then, and there are always other people that see it completely differently than you and say what you chose was wrong when you thought you were right. The only things that are right and wrong are what society says. Didn’t you EVER do something wrong as a child, something you thought was perfectly fine, but then your mom jumps on your case? Probably not in Jon’s case, but not because he always chose what was right. Here’s the problem: what’s right to you for your reasons may be wrong to someone else for their reasons. This is why we don’t have kids trying to solve life’s biggest ethical questions.

Comment by Michael — April 24, 2007 @ 10:48 am

Here is the groups orgainizers “reasons” for an alternative commencement. Idiots! How in the world did they get in BYU and they should get kicked out pronto. And don’t say freedom of speach freedom of speach! If you are trying to buck the system of a PRIVATE university run by the church you are wacko

REASONS

1) Mr. Cheney’s involvement in the decision to invade Iraq

2) Mr. Cheney’s defense of torture as a method of interrogation

3) Mr. Cheney’s ties to Halliburton, Enron and the Energy Task Force

4) Mr. Cheney’s role in the Scooter Libby/Valerie Plame affair

5) Mr. Cheney’s extreme conservativism

6) The conservative pattern of officials invited to speak at BYU

7) Political neutrality at BYU

8) To highlight the value of free speech

9) To give minority student voices a voice

10) To highlight the need for alternatives, dissent, and diversity

Comment by jtuffy — April 24, 2007 @ 10:48 am

oh man, these people have my blood boiling, Extremism, just like yesterday.
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,660214543,00.html

Comment by jtuffy — April 24, 2007 @ 10:53 am

probably a bunch of liberal california mormons. I don’t know too much about it. I am sure it is kinda like I have said before. They don’t really believe those things. They probably don’t even know what it is they are protesting against. They just think it makes them more “intelectual” or more “sofisticated”. Probably even makes them feel like they are out there making a difference. when in reality they are ignorant fools. and what they really need is a good beatin. Maybe thats it. Maybe people like this are the result of not spanking your kids. anyways, I can just imagine these stupid kids out there protesting, making fools of themselves, and half of them are just out there because some peter priesthood, or molly mormon that they have crushes on are out there. I bet these people don’t know a thing about Cheney. And I gaurantee they don’t know anything about the war in Iraq if thats what they are protesting. I guarantee not one of them has the balls to go and fight for our country. So maybe i’ll drive by with my paintball gun while they are protesting and hose em down.

Habeeb out !!!!

Comment by Habeeb Haboo — April 24, 2007 @ 10:57 am

Michael, I agree that, “what’s right to you for your reasons may be wrong to someone else for their reasons.” That is a true and astute statement. We are all idiots. So, how do we become wise? We learn and do what God wants us to, by asking him for knowledge and faith to follow it.

Comment by Seth — April 24, 2007 @ 10:57 am

This is from a talk be Elder Maxwell and aplies to both conversations:

Another mistake we make is that we foolishly think we are free to choose, without wanting the consequences of those choices! (see Alma 29:4). Bainville, the French philosopher, said, “One must want the consequences of what one wants.”

Another mistake commonly made is that we play to the mortal galleries! We listen too much to the wrong peers. There is what I call the mystic “they,” who for some become ascendant. In terms of the choices they make, they want to please the mystic “they.” We see this politically, in the corporate world, in academic life, and so on.

Some people are so anxious to be politically correct and to conform to the fashions of the world! What is worse, however, is when we see members of the Church try to conform eternal truths to the ways and thinking of the world. But it won’t work! As Paul warned, “The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned” (1 Cor. 2:14). It is a terrible mistake for us to try to please the world by twisting and conforming things that won’t fit in the secular matrix.

Now, these mistakes are but a few we make; they keep us from fully applying the Atonement to our lives. They are not worthy of Jesus and what He accomplished in Gethsemane and on Calvary!

To understand and have faith, therefore, in the character and the purposes of God means that instead of complaining, we accept (more than we do) the menu of life and what is allotted to us. Sometimes with particular individuals that may seem to be the equivalent of “Eat your spinach” and “Clean your plate.”

Comment by Seth — April 24, 2007 @ 11:03 am

oh wow, those are rediculous reasons. again i gauruntee they don’t know a thing about those issues not to mention that they aren’t even issues. People who don’t believe in torture tactics really get me hot and bothered. If they weren’t to stupid to realize this is being done to save their life they would think different. I am all for torture tactics. I am all for killing Haboo in front of Habeeb to get habeeb to talk. And anyone who actually understood war would be also. this is part of what makes war such a miserable thing. but it is what it is. And what don’t these morons understand about going to a private church school. the reason it is a private church school is so they can control who comes to speak at the school. That is why their rich yuppy parents sent them to byu. If they want something different they can go to another school, where they will get nothing but liberal democrats coming to speak to them. anyways, I would love to debate with these fools. lets try to find their names and send them some emails.

cletus out !!!!

Comment by Cletus — April 24, 2007 @ 11:10 am

Seth stop posting long quotes from talks and stuff. just say what you think. they are too long.

and michael the problem with your point is. even if some people think something is right, and some people think it is wrong, Truth is truth. Just because somebody believes something doesn’t mean it is right or that it is the truth. Two oposing beliefs can’t both be true. You can even look at this very scientifically if you want. And eventually you will realize how wrong you are. And you will be begging for forgivness and mercy, which might not be given to you. I guess since you are so healthy you have another 100 years to realize the error of your ways.

Bubba Out !!!

Comment by Bubba — April 24, 2007 @ 11:16 am

Have you ever actually debated with someone like this? It is absolutely impossible. They will not budge an inch, no matter what you say. It’s a hopeless cause for the vast majority of these radicals. There has to be another way.

Comment by Michael — April 24, 2007 @ 11:18 am

LOL, well i really enjoyed that quoted talk, it hit it right on the head, but also, seth you need to follow up with your own commentary. …. now this crazy girl at byu is drawing all types of negative views on BYU. Extremist! The church repeatedly says that it does not take a political stance but this wacko is turning it into political, politics and religion don’t mix. Instead of studying and trying to be normal this girl is making protest posters and other crap, I hope she flunks out. Another example of some rich snob without a job probably!

Comment by jtuffy — April 24, 2007 @ 11:20 am

Micahel said “Have you ever actually debated with someone like this? It is absolutely impossible. They will not budge an inch, no matter what you say. It’s a hopeless cause for the vast majority of these radicals. There has to be another way.”

I can think of someone. LOL

Comment by jtuffy — April 24, 2007 @ 11:21 am

Oh my… everyone to your battle stations!

Comment by Seth — April 24, 2007 @ 11:25 am

Funny, Spence. But I was looking a little deeper than just one opinion versus another. If there is a Truth, then that means Truth is not ALWAYS just. I could give you an example of what I’m thinking, but it would be too long, but just imagine a situation where you do what is truly right for one small innocent child, which helped this child live. Then this child grows up and has another child that is very bad and grows up to hurt innocent people that may never have been hurt had you let the original child die. Life’s too complicated to just say one thing is right and that means it is right, because it may hurt an innocent person somehow down the road for just one example. This is what ethics are all about. You may do one thing to help many, many people, but to do it, you must hurt other people. It’s too difficult unless you just agree that Truth is not ALWAYS just.

Comment by Michael — April 24, 2007 @ 11:29 am

I’ll refer to Sunday’s discussion on Agency. Which is what we have to make our own choices and be big boys.

Comment by jtuffy — April 24, 2007 @ 11:32 am

Tuffy, don’t you think in that case you will be debating your god versus theirs? Neither of you would budge no matter how much either of you feel the spirit. That is truly not the answer; otherwise, it would have solved every problem long ago INSTEAD of causing endless wars! Of course I’m assuming I understood what you were insinuating.

Comment by Michael — April 24, 2007 @ 11:33 am

Tuffy, good call. You CAN always do what’s right. But other’s stil have the freedom to do what they are going to do.

Comment by Seth — April 24, 2007 @ 11:35 am

The answer is that truth does exist and it wouldn’t matter how much any person “thinks” they feel the spirit, in the end, when all the marbles come loose, and everyone will finally KNOW the truth, then some people will be right and some will be wrong. And the people that were wrong will know it and will not be able to deny it.

Comment by jtuffy — April 24, 2007 @ 11:43 am

The problem with your argument, Michael, is Emotionalism. Some people will listen to their pride more than the Spirit. They will claim to be guided, but it is their emotions guiding them. These people twist their religion to fit their own agendas and desires. This is where the endlss war comes from, people who are using emotions and religion to justify their actions.

A humble follower of Christ looks to put what is right ahead of himself. He is more conserned with what God wants for him than his personal desires and pride. This is one definition of knowing them by their fruits, people that put what is right first. Not people who make what they want right by warping revelation and religion.

Comment by Seth — April 24, 2007 @ 11:47 am

Jon’s statement was perfect, but leaves out an important idea. In order to avoid being one of those who was regretfuly wrong… we need to humble ourselves now and ask to know the truth now. And this truth is only given to those who are willing to receive faith and act upon it.

Comment by Seth — April 24, 2007 @ 11:50 am

It really doesn’t matter why the wars over religion occur (well, not in my post above anyway). I’m just saying you can’t use god to stop wars and protests and get through to people. Otherwise, everyone would be saved and believe the same thing. Emotions being the reason or not, I’m just saying it won’t work for the vast majority of radicals that truly believe they ARE doing what god wants. They can’t see the truth regardless.

Comment by Michael — April 24, 2007 @ 11:58 am

I agree with you Michael 100 percento, everyone always thinks that they are right, it is a selfish, prideful thing that makes us humans. That is why like seth said we have to be humble seekers of the truth.

Comment by jtuffy — April 24, 2007 @ 12:34 pm

So where’s the voice that’s wheezin?

How about a stimulating question? Actually, I’d bet it’s only stimulating to those with open minds. In your cases, it is probably an inhibiting question.

Comment by Michael — April 24, 2007 @ 1:00 pm

So here is a stimulating question for DOMS, What do you think happens when we die?

Comment by jtuffy — April 24, 2007 @ 1:13 pm

I’ve experienced death. I know what doesn’t happen.

Comment by Michael — April 24, 2007 @ 1:16 pm

No, but really. Say you really are confronted with god after death. And you are a typical Catholic (that’s not judging). What could he say to that person? Actually, they WOULD know they were wrong - bad example. Let’s say a typical Baptist. What could god say?

Comment by Michael — April 24, 2007 @ 1:20 pm

Ah, so you must believe in reincarnation. What were you in the previous life? And you are deviating from the question, i asked what you thought happens.

Comment by jtuffy — April 24, 2007 @ 1:35 pm

Okay, in just a minute I’m going to give you my perspective, so stay tuned!

Comment by Michael — April 24, 2007 @ 1:38 pm

Do i have time for some redenbacher?

Comment by jtuffy — April 24, 2007 @ 1:39 pm

Yeah, call up ol’ Orval and order some.

Comment by Michael — April 24, 2007 @ 1:41 pm

I’m writing now…

Comment by Michael — April 24, 2007 @ 1:41 pm

I actually have many perspectives I look at, but let’s look at the one where I imagine what god would say to me if I died right now, and what I would say back:

Based on Christianity’s perception of god and how he works, I imagine he would basically look at me and tell me all the reasons I can’t be saved by him. But then I look at him and say, “But I tried! I asked you over and over, and I told you I was struggling with thought’s against you and I didn’t know how to find why these things were okay. I prayed every night, morning and day constantly trying to figure out where I should go, how I should feel, or how I should overcome my problems with religion. I asked you what I could do. I didn’t just ask you to change me. Actually, I used to ask that, then I realized that I should do everything I could and then I prayed and had faith that you would fill in the blanks. I did this for years, going up and down, up and down; and with each down, I went a little further no matter how high I ever got. I persevered for years telling myself I was to blame for my troubles and you would save me when I did the right thing. But when I did start doing what I felt was right, like you were for sure telling me to do, you still allowed the bad things I was avoiding at all cost to come back to me and bring me down. I read your Bible, I read the Book of Mormon consistently, but I could never get past a certain point. How could I have done anything any differently when I truly tried the hardest I possibly could. I fought for you to so many people, but it didn’t matter. Nothing I did mattered. My prayers were never answered. I had faith since I was little until only a few years ago. I never doubted you until just a few years ago. I always thought the problem was with the people, not you. It didn’t matter. Even when I began telling you for the first time I am actually feeling like you don’t exist, you didn’t help me. What could I have done differently? If I was already praying and listening, living righteous, going to the Mormon church when I didn’t even have a friend or family member, how could I have done anything any differently to actually have heard you tell me where to go, what to do? How could I have kept my faith when I was trying so hard?”

There you go! In a nut shell.

Comment by Michael — April 24, 2007 @ 2:03 pm

Hey wait a minute, you said you didn’t believe in God, I thought you were an Atheist?

Comment by jtuffy — April 24, 2007 @ 2:08 pm

Now, instead of just telling me how that is part of the plan, to doubt and to have problems and such. You have to understand that I’m fully aware of that. That’s what kept me going for so long. Don’t you guys think I want to do the right thing? Of course I do! No matter what, that’s what I want. So, this must be pretty strong for me to choose not to believe. It’s ridiculous to think I would know the truth but just say no. That’s crazy! Actually, that’s naive. I could have been a great servant to the lord. I could have been very dedicated if I just knew how to dedicate myself. I did dedicate myself for as long as I could suppress all the questions. I kept telling him I want to serve him and be a seriously dedicated servant but that I just didn’t know how. I told him what was in the way of me doing that. I prayed to find a way around those things, then I tried a million things to get around them myself with faith, to say the least. It all just came up empty until I realized that after all these years, I was just talking and asking myself. There was never a higher power.

Comment by Michael — April 24, 2007 @ 2:14 pm

After all that, that’s all you came up with? I was speaking hypothetically. I kind of changed the topic for a minute.

Comment by Michael — April 24, 2007 @ 2:16 pm

So let me see if i understand, you’re an athiest… but you think that you’ll meet God and tell him all those things and then what?

Comment by jtuffy — April 24, 2007 @ 2:17 pm

Remember - hypothetical?? But, humoring you some more, I imagine god would then cast me away and I go to hell knowing he was not just and he was not who I thought he was because he wouldn’t do that to someone who did serve for so long and then fought to stay on top but just couldn’t. That is not a just god. It isn’t fair that I had to come from a life that led me to question until I fell away. Most people don’t think the way I do and therefore don’t reach levels that I reach and fall away. I didn’t choose to be this way. Trust me.

Comment by Michael — April 24, 2007 @ 2:30 pm

So here’s what I have never understood about your situation michael. What is it that you were waiting for to happen. I know this is hard to believe, but you haven been given more than most people. You have been given more oportunity and support than most recieve. Yet it seems that it just wasn’t enough for you. You wanted something else which I can’t figure out what it is given to you on a silver platter. So you had faith for a few years. That was great. You were just short the last 80 years. Here is the cool part though, you have only wasted a couple of years you can still return to the fold. I do agree with you about one thing though. you did and do have great potential. you are very pationate about whatever it is you are focusing on at the time. I just to think about how many people you could have brought into the church as a missionary. And I think deep down you still believe and know there is a God. I don’t think there is anyway you could deny that. Thats why you have thought in so much detail about what you will say to him. Just think of the fun we could have years down the road joking about the few years you were an atheist.

Comment by Elvis — April 24, 2007 @ 2:49 pm

Thanks for the kind words, Spence. But, you have to understand and respect that moral support and physical gifts can never stand a chance against a problem in the mind. That’s something you can’t see. That’s why you can’t understand my situation. The mind can overcome or destroy anything in your life.

Comment by Michael — April 24, 2007 @ 3:02 pm

Man, there’s a lot to cover.

Here’s how i see it. It all goes back to agency. Suspence put it best: Truth is Truth. No matter how hard we choose against the truth it doesn’t change the fact that it is still there. yes, there are people that believe differently and start wars because what THEY believe is true, but herein lies agency and mercy. if that person was taught from the time they were young to believe something then they had no choice. agency was not available to them on that particular aspect of the truth. that doesn’t mean that someday they might not be exposed to it and if they are truly searching for it and open to it, then they will accept it.

from what i gathered from michael’s explanation, there were just things that his mind would not let him accept about the gospel. only michael truly knows what he thought and experienced and what lead him to make the decisions he made.

here’s how i see it. intellect runs in conflict with faith. picture this: your faith emits a force field. the stronger your faith, the larger the size of the force field and the more it is able to withstand. our intellect, by its very nature, fights against our faith. if our intellect is able to penetrate the force field created by our faith, then we stop believing. sometimes the smartest people challenge the gospel so much that they no longer rely on faith to help them feel secure. they demand intellect. we just have to make sure that the more intellect we obtain and the more we seek, we must match that by increasing our faith.

i’m not saying this is what happened michael, only you know. but its what i’ve experienced in my life.

Comment by The Scam — April 24, 2007 @ 3:30 pm

as for the whole cheney thing. losers!! just don’t go to graduation. who cares? those kids are stupid anyway. if it was kerry coming to visit do you think anyone would throw a fit. maybe they should get harry reid to visit.

Comment by The Scam — April 24, 2007 @ 3:31 pm

back to the very beginning. as well, i actually do think the flesh is weak. i think the flesh plays a greater role than we think in the whole business. i mean we can’t be saved without our bodies, they most have something going on.

Comment by The Scam — April 24, 2007 @ 3:33 pm

Well no one can fully understand anyone’s situation. And a disease of the mind can be difficult to overcome but it is possible. However, i think it is a bit of a stretch to say you did all that you can, heck, after you were baptized, you only came to church like 4 times, that isn’t much in the department of trying considering. But i agree with spence, there is plenty of time to come back into the fold, we always have open arms, you just have to make the efforts to embrace them.

Comment by jtuffy — April 24, 2007 @ 3:44 pm

again, as soon as i say anything, everyone takes off. does my breath smell?

tuffy - i heard that jamie jackson is engaged. thought you might be interested. oh, and did you know a chick named lauren in norman? she was friends with amy vaclaw and she is half thai. ring any bells?

Comment by The Scam — April 24, 2007 @ 4:57 pm

Yeah, i talked to jaime about a month ago and she said she was getting married, she sounded very excited. You get on the blogs to late! LOL oh, i don’t know who that is? Should I?

Comment by jtuffy — April 24, 2007 @ 5:11 pm

no, she knows you though. apparently all the ladies know who senor tuffy is.

Comment by The Scam — April 24, 2007 @ 5:20 pm

I probably do, my memory is going though

Comment by jtuffy — April 24, 2007 @ 8:32 pm

here’s a question for michael: do you find the satisfaction in science that you were looking for in god? and if so, is that a mental satisfaction or an emotional satisfaction?

Comment by The Scam — April 24, 2007 @ 8:41 pm

I don’t know how to answer that question. They aren’t the same to me. As for mental or emotional, I’d say it’s both, whatever it is. I could tell you some big differences in how I feel now compared to then and when I was younger. I’ll have to do that tomorrow since I am super busy studying for a grande final. One more thing though, Jon thinks I didn’t give it a good try because he sees that I only went to church a few times after my baptism. However, I didn’t stop going to church because I was lazy or whatever. I stopped because the main problems got to me again and made me unhappy with what I was doing. On the other hand, you guys didn’t see my lone dedication to persevering all things while I was in AZ. You didn’t see me invite the missionaries over frequently and read scriptures once to twice a day combined with super sincere and faithful prayer. I had some amazing opportunities in AZ that a non-christian would have loved to take advantage of (well, if you’re anything like me anyway), but I passed up those things because I was dedicated.

Anyway, I’ve got to study like a mad man!

Comment by Michael — April 24, 2007 @ 9:14 pm

i’m out too. fill me in tomorrow.

Comment by The Scam — April 24, 2007 @ 9:16 pm

Come on now Doms, i talked to you all the time in AZ and you never went to church there. I don’t want to point out the specifics but you didn’t give it very long. I knew some people in Brasil who went to church for years and put in years, decades worth of effort to find the truth. You are looking for some ah-ha moment some sort of sign. And you know that isn’t going to happen, but so many people look for and expect that. Remember how you said that you didn’t want to go on a mission becuase your mission was to race motorcycles? Well we were out dedicating 2 years and i never had an angel but i never sought after those things, it could happen but only for the uber righteous and according to God’s will. (However, i can’t speak for everyone else) People expect angels to come down and sing glory glory at their baptism but reality is different.

Big weekend coming up, Beck might hit up the Dolphins which cameron mention, i’ve got high hopes for someone to pick up the drought of QBYU! We’ll see what happens

Tuffy Out!

Comment by jtuffy — April 24, 2007 @ 9:30 pm

Michael, I don’t know what you have gone through, but your comments remind me of my own strugles. (I bet they, to some extent, remind everyone of their strugles… you’ld be surprised by how many have these feelings) It has been very hard. I am physiologicaly prone to doubt, despare, and feelings that I’ve been abandoned and I’m alone. It’s funny too, it is so hard to overcome because this condition provides plenty of time for me to think about these things and the pain inside. I am naturaly prone to look to myself, because I often have feelings that suggest I’m the only one I can rely on. And then there is the overwhelming desire to do anything to quench the smoldering pain I feel inside. But, I choose to have hope instead of giving into the pain and anguish (Michael, I am not accusing you of anything… I am not judging your intentions, just sharing my experiance.) As rough as it is here below, there can be peace and joy. And though it may only be brief and fleeting in this life… I know I can have it eternaly. I know you can too!

I know Spence doesn’t like my quotes, but he doesn’t like alot of things… and these men of God know much more than I do. This is more of the talk I quoted earlier. It is entitled “Repentance and Atonement” and it was given by Elder Neal A Maxwell. It has to do with personal submisivness and the sacrifice we make to follow Christ. I find it personal interesting and relavent, because as much as I talk about humility and submisiveness… the reason I talk about these things is because they are very hard for me. Here he is talking about mistakes we make in our understanding of the atonement:

“Now, these mistakes are but a few we make; they keep us from fully applying the Atonement to our lives. They are not worthy of Jesus and what He accomplished in Gethsemane and on Calvary!

To understand and have faith, therefore, in the character and the purposes of God means that instead of complaining, we accept (more than we do) the menu of life and what is allotted to us. Sometimes with particular individuals that may seem to be the equivalent of “Eat your spinach” and “Clean your plate.”

Part of discipleship should be to become high-yield, low-maintenance members of the Church. These members are not high profile; they won’t be on the six o’clock evening news when they die. But they have done what Heavenly Father has wanted them to do meekly and humbly.”

It is important, for me presonaly, to remember that I don’t need to understand to be faithful. If I strive to do all that I can in faith, the knowledge will come when it is needed as the dews from heaven. The other thing you mentioned that I relate to, is that you were never told what to do. I think you are a pretty smart guy, and I know that the Lord often doesn’t tell us what to do because he wants us to act for ourselves. He has given us the information we need to be righteous through the words of His prophets and apostles… it is up to us to study these things out and act on them. Then when he has special instructions and guidance, we will be ready and prepared to receive and follow them.

I just put Benj to bed. He is such a sweet boy, but he is also strong willed and impatient with the rules. I love him so much and it hurts me when I have to corect his behavior. But I know it is critical that he learns discipline to follow “the rules”. Even though it is hard, I strugle to instruct and when needed discipline, because I do not want our time to be limited to the hear and now. Even though he might be happier if he gets to do whatever he wants, it will not prepare us to receive joy in the eternities. (I just had to get up and scold him for pulling his cd player of the dresser… lol) The same goes with God. He wants to recieve us into his peace and joy, and he loves us so much he is willing to let us strugle without him so we can grow and prepare to return to him.

I too hope you come back into the fold. It’s not too late. And I know, that as hard is it can seem, if we persever we will be strengthened. It’s like building muscles, the Lord makes week things strong… through resistance training. He will make you strong and give you happiness and joy if you will return. I have seen it in my life. Despite the trials and sadness below… there is joy to be had here and in the life to come.

I hope this wasn’t too long and I hope it wasn’t preachy. These are just the thoughts of someone who is strugling to someone else who is also strugling. We are all in this together, and we will always be here for you. Here is the talk I quoted, if you are interested in reading it. Hope you do. http://emp.byui.edu/marrottr/GenlAuthorities/MaxwellRepentAtone.htm

Comment by Seth — April 24, 2007 @ 9:54 pm

yes seth that was way to long.

that was a pretty good analogy with muscle building. Think about that michael, you preach the importance of resistance training for the rest of your life for you physical well being. Well what about resistance training for your spiritual well being for the rest of your life. Look how much your spiritual muscles have diminished from the lack of training.

Well lets spice it up tomorrow. talk about racism or something again.

Comment by Bubba — April 24, 2007 @ 10:51 pm