December 6, 2007

December 6, 2007
Romney’s speech on Faith
Filed under: Uncategorized — jtuffy @ 10:15 am
Maybe this will get some good discussion going.

33 Comments »
OK, so what are your thoughts on the upcoming Romney speech on his faith?

Do you think he should give the speech?

What should he talk about?

Why do you think so many people are questioning his faith, where if you said anything about Hilary’s gender or Obama’s race you would be crucified?

How come it is ok to take potshots at Mormon’s but its taboo to talk about anyone else’s religion or race?

Thoughts???

Comment by jtuffy — December 6, 2007 @ 10:18 am

Very interesting. I think one point that should be made is that it’s really not just Mormon’s that take the low blows. Pretty much all white & openly faithful christians are looked at like they missed something. It seems like the norm in our culture that any semi-well educated person would have figured out that even if they claim a religion they don’t really need to live it (Bill Clintons promiscuity, George W’s drug use and binge drinking) But, if a black person has even more open and zealous religious conviction… well, that’s okay - it’s part of their culture (the Reverend Sharpton)

When did it become part of our culture to dismiss religion as foolishness? Surprisingly, I don’t blame the hippies… they created an influx of so called “spirituality”, no matter how misguided, they weren’t denying there was a God… just radicaly warping their view of who he was. If anything, the damage they caused was in making God a free loving entity… the term unconditional love wasn’t really used until the 60’s and 70’s.

If you really think about it, so called “liberal” thinking couldn’t really change our cultures view on religion. Too many people would have detected an open assault on faith. It wasn’t any philosophy that got us, it was a complete lack of philosophy. It was a diversion… a distraction that warped our countries view of religion.

It was the yuppies that did us in. They got so busy that they didn’t have time for religion. And then they realized that if they got even busier they didn’t even have time for the resulting guilt. Their buisiness transfered into everything they did and pretty soon it even took over their persuit of enjoyment. Just look at our culture today and the way people are in turbo mode all the time, even when they are suposed to be “relaxing”. There simpley isn’t time for religion and especaily a belief that requires self sacrifice and daily devotion. Quite meditation, well that’s compleatly out.

It’s no wonder that our culture despises people of the LDS faith. We stand in opposition to everything they have adopted as meaningful and fulfilling. But, this has been happening for thousands of years. And, we’ve known it would be getting worse in our day for an equal amount of time. The truely sad part of this story is the members of our faith that seek to disipate this disparity by adopting the worlds standard of importance/selfishness. The true irony is that the worlds beliefs and ours are so similar… the more it requires of us, the more satisfying it will be.

The label that people of faith are uneducated or crazy didn’t come from a philisophical view, but because we don’t condone the popular priority… turbo-selfishness. They had to label people that didn’t agree somehow, right? And now the divide in our culture has created room for philosophy and science to sneak in and get a piece… they finaly had the window they had been seeking for so long to distort the popular opinion of people of faith.

So, I guess I totaly support a speach defending Romney’s faith. I’m concerned and interested as to how he (or anyone) would approach it. I hope that he can speak openly and honestly, and that it’s him speaking and not his PR and campain personel.

Comment by Seth — December 6, 2007 @ 12:45 pm

I thought there might be some actual discussion today. Some exchange of ideas… or at very least Spencer getting on and telling us we are all idiots (or at least me) Oh well… ther’s allways tomarow!

So, I found something I think you’ll all enjoy. Orson Scott Card has sever online publications. One of those is called, “The Ornery American” and deals with just about everything, but tends to get really political. Here is a short excerpt from a recent article entitled, “Who’s Brave and Who’s a Hypocrite?” written by OSC…

“So … in the middle of a war, these Congresspeople, who insist that they “support our troops,” now characterize funding a Congressionally-approved war, which we are winning, as a personal whim of the President, while their pork-filled or ideologically-driven domestic spending is too important not to overfund it.”

Fun stuff… I really like this guys opinions. Here is the entire article… check it out and let me know whatcha think!

http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2007-11-11-1.html

Also, check out the link to “About Ornery”. It is the publications mission statement… pretty funny. Enjoy!

Comment by Seth — December 6, 2007 @ 4:07 pm

Oh, don’t worry, i’ve had the blog up all day almost ready with a response, but things keep coming up

Comment by jtuffy — December 6, 2007 @ 4:08 pm

I would have to disagree with you on one point Seth, even though i thought the others hit it right on the head including yuppies and Mitt’s speach. However, i would point out that the 60’s and 70’s movements were some of the most decitful times in history. Free love, free speach, Women’s movements and human activists sewed the seeds of contempt and rebillion that ushered the yuppie generation into a feeling of entitlement and justification. Satan knows that it is hard to alter the course of river overnight, it takes time, just a slight veer from the path will breed change in the future. Of course these alterations have been coming at us for centuries now. Just look how much the world has changed.

Plus, it is the easier path these days to say that God is everyone and loves everyone, its a justification. A lifestyle choice. The funniest thing that gets me is the Sabbath. People love to thump the Bible and say it is absolute and all-incompassing; but don’t even abide by the defnitive commandment to keep the sabbath day holy. But we live in a society where Sunday is a “weekend day” for the beach, the mall, the movies, getting a wax job or whatever, just any other ordinary day. That one really puzzles me with “Bible” readers. But hey, to each his own.

So why is it ok to make pot-shots at Mormons, White people or men. I just don’t get it.

Comment by jtuffy — December 6, 2007 @ 4:20 pm

Speaking as a Mormon White Man, we are considered “privileged” and must therefore have the mental, physical and monitary means to defend ourselves while us picking on the “un-privileged” is considered agression against the weak. (Let it be noted that this is said with about as much sarcasm and irony as I know how to muster… lol)

No need to disagree with me Jony… I see the progression the same way, and thought it was implied in my little essay. I guess I didn’t really make that clear though.

If you really want to get into the progression of this moral slip, it becomes even more fascinating. What were the hippies rebeling against? Their workaholic moraly dominearing babyboomer parents, right? Well, why were their parents like this in the first place? I would suggest that they were over compensating for the moral slide that occured during world war 2. No one will denny that the men and women of the greatest generation were heros, but they definanatly had some moral and emotional bagage! So, when life goes back to “normal” after the war… they vow to be normal with a vengance! They over compensated for what they did and what happened to them.

And, how did their children respond. Rebelion caused by guilt at not beaing able to meat the standards of their parants. The standards which their parents couldn’t meat either. And the rebelion of the hippies made it acceptable to go aggainst the grain inadvertantly opening the door for their greatest enemy… the yuppie! The psychological trail goes all the way back to Eve and an apple, and consists of all the joy and pain in between. Interesting to think about though! Though it doesn’t do much to answer either of your questions. lol

Comment by Seth — December 6, 2007 @ 5:03 pm

I’d love to know what skeletons live in your holier than thou closets. God does love everyone.

Comment by Leigh Ann — December 6, 2007 @ 5:04 pm

Ok… Leigh Ann, why does my statement that “unconditional love” does not exist mean that I have skeletons in my closet? I did not say that God doesn’t love everyone, you just interpreted it that way. What does your interpretation say about you? What does your ability to judge me say about you? That you are “Holier” than me?

Comment by Seth — December 6, 2007 @ 5:29 pm

Whoa! LOL busting out the subliminal messages. Anyways, leigh ann, i don’t think anyone has the holier than thou attitude. Of course everyone has pride, but that isn’t always a bad thing

Comment by jtuffy — December 6, 2007 @ 7:35 pm

When is the speech? I don’t have time to read all of this right now, but I wish I could get in on this!

Comment by DOMS 287 — December 6, 2007 @ 8:17 pm

No skeletons,huh? ok..delusional. My comment about God loving everyone referenced Jon’s #5 comment.

Comment by Leigh Ann — December 6, 2007 @ 8:28 pm

Leigh Ann… Is that seriously what you got from my post? Read much? Anyway… try adding something to the conversation next time instead of just showing up and flaming people all the time.

Michael, the speach was this morning. The coverage on the news stations has been pretty funny. I missed it, unfortunantly… but if I find a good link to it I’ll post it.

Anyone read Heros or Hypocrites yet? I want to know what you guys thought. I agreed with just about all of it, except his portrail of the Dems being united in their partisanship. I really think once ”W” is no longer there for them to focus fire on, they are going to be reduced to taking pot shots at anything that moves. They can’t agree with anyone on anything… not even with themselves. And it’s going to become very obvious very fast. The only reason they have been moderatly successful is because of George W…

Comment by Seth — December 6, 2007 @ 9:17 pm

I just read the article and I totally agree! The democrats jump on anything they can get their greasy paws on. It is like they are just an extension of a media conglomerate! Of course the republicans are not much better. I think it is just polictics in general. The whole system just needs to be wiped clean and we need a do over. Why do we need two parties? What purpose does it serve?

Comment by jtuffy — December 6, 2007 @ 9:46 pm

Yes,BlogGod, I will remember and obey. Nah, free speech….by the way,Seth, spell much?

Comment by Leigh Ann — December 6, 2007 @ 9:57 pm

I wish I could have read from the beginning here, but I’m just jumping on between my sprints to prepare for my next final tomorrow morning.

Seth, PLEEEEAAAAASE find a good article or more on the speech!!!! I’ve got to hear what they say. I’m sure they are having a field day with this no matter what he said!

About the democrats not having B Jr to bash when he’s gone and then revealing their own inabilities, I don’t think it’s going to happen so evidently. At least not to those that don’t want to admit it. I think W will be their way out of everything. He will be to blame for them not being able to do things correctly. Guys, you would not believe what I have to put up with over here in Liberal County. I absolutely cannot believe the things EVERYONE says about W. They are not even in the slightest bit reasonable, and they think they are so smart for saying it. Anyway, I miss poor, innocent, harmless Saddam, don’t you? Stupid Bush. All for oil.

Comment by DOMS 287 — December 7, 2007 @ 1:42 am

Okay, so seth I want you to find the articles for me since I don’t have any time myself right now. It’s 2:15 AM. I’m going to try to get some sleep now. Wake up at 6, go to my TA job, spend an hour preparing for their tests for the day, then to class until 9:45, then to my second final at 10:30 across campus. As soon as I’m done with that, well, back to the books for my most difficult final of all for Monday morning. THEN, the very second I’m finished with that final, I must shoot back over to my TA job to literally grade final exams until 10-12 AM. It took me 3.5 hours to grade one class of finals today. I have to grade three classes after my final on Monday. The grades absolutely have to be entered into the system by 12 AM Tuesday (you know, Monday night). Okay, I’ve vented enough. Time to take my nap now.

I did quickly read your blogs but I don’t have time to vent about that too.

Comment by DOMS 287 — December 7, 2007 @ 3:24 am

Yep, i think liberals are pretty funny. And i love when people call Bush an Idiot. Somehow, I’m pretty sure he is a smart guy. I would love for this people that call him an idiot to go on Jeporady and see how dumb they really are. I guess it is always just easier to point the finger and join the crowd to bash someone. Just like i find it amazing that crowd frenzy mentality. For example, in those crazy middle eastern countries where they have public stonings, do people just get caught up in the momement and start throwing stones? Or during riots? Crowd frenzy reduces the IQ by about 100 I’d say. That is exactly what the democrats and politics in general are like, a stupid crowd frenzy!

Comment by jtuffy — December 7, 2007 @ 10:08 am

Too funny Jon. It’s really illustrated when you live somewhere that you are in a political minority. Like Michael (is he really that conservative) Coday at UCONN, and myself (though not really liberal enough for the liberals) in Idaho. I remember during the last Presidential election when a couple of the college demecrats got their cars keyed for having unpopular candidates on their bumper stickers. I have learned to be very cautious when it comes to discussing politics. I really have to test the waters to make sure the person I’m talking to won’t be baligerant and rude when we actualy start to discuss issues and events.

And the whole Bush issue. I really don’t think the guy is stupid, but that is what’s so interesting to me. How can someone smart justify making some of the desicions he has made. Like this story about the new iran inteligence. His story has been so inconsistant with when and what he has known to the point of giving people one more thing to point fingers at. Is this diversion? Is he just trying to get us to focus on certain issues, that we might otherwise overlook? Who knows. I really just wonder what happened to the Bush that was the Texas Governor, the up and coming political star. He was actualy viewed alot like Obama coming into all of this, a guy that could work outside the system and actualy get things done.

Oh well, one wild ride is grinding to a halt and everyone is ready to jump on the next!

Comment by Seth — December 7, 2007 @ 10:44 am

The thing is, Bush is getting info from a million different places, do you really think that 1 guy runs the country. He probably just got some memo on his desk about the iran and he looked over it while at the golf course. Its tough to be the king

Comment by jtuffy — December 7, 2007 @ 12:47 pm

I agree with tuffy for the most part in the last post. The bottom line is that he is getting info in one way or another that we don’t hear. I don’t have time to say much, but you have to remember that Bush was immediately put to an extremely big test with 9/11. Whatever was expected of him, or whatever he expected of himself, instantly flew out the window and all bets were off. I truly don’t think he can be blamed for doing what he has and does do. He certainly isn’t the only one thinking they are the right moves. More later.

Comment by DOMS 287 — December 7, 2007 @ 1:59 pm

Yea… you guys are right, but you also have to realize that part of his mass of people “helping” run the show are there to make sure he doesn’t say crazy contradictory stuff. In fact… there are probably as many telling him what to say and how to say it as there are actualy processing and analizing the information he recieves. Why then, all the slip ups?

Comment by Seth — December 7, 2007 @ 4:41 pm

Ahh, its just life! I’m sure one of his aides gets fired everytime there is a slip up. And who knows, maybe the iranian people are feeding them bogus info!

Comment by jtuffy — December 7, 2007 @ 4:52 pm

Yea… so what I have seen of Mits speach has been pretty good. I have been crazy busy today running kids this way and that so I haven’t been able to compleat my task for Doms yet. But I’ll see if I can find it this evening.

The buzz seems to be that this is the speach that could take him all the way. It really impressed alot of people. He is being compared to Kenedy and the powerful speach he gave about his faith before he was elected and I have even heard a couple comparisons to a few of the founding father’s and their religious views. Kinda crazy.

Obama is also making some great speaches and really trying to take the high road. Instead of slinging the filth with Hilary he is really trying to inspire people and give them hope in this great country. I really think this is what the people need right now. Someone who can inspire them, not someone who can feed their already saturated pessamism and negative outlook. I think that if Romney and Oboma can keep it up it will come down to the two of them in November.

Comment by Seth — December 7, 2007 @ 5:13 pm

Hopefully it does come down to oboma and romney! Then Romney has a good chance. Obama’s crutch is his inexperience! Plus he’s a democrat, he wants free health care, more taxes, and more government. Not my kind of guy. I’m all about the free market

Comment by jtuffy — December 7, 2007 @ 8:14 pm

I totally disagree with your Obama view. That guy is the stereotypical politician that just tells everyone what they want to hear and promises the world to them. He’s just trying to do what it takes to win, then he’ll try to deal with all the promises he should know can’t be fulfilled. I think Hillary is actually more realistic than that guy. Either way, you’re dreaming if you think Obama is going to get the spot over Hillary. You can bet it’s going to be her, and she’ll most likely be our next president. But, I guarantee she won’t last two terms. Everyone will get it out of their system when they get her elected, then they will realize what a foolish idea that was. We’ll be the laughing-stock of the world. She’ll get laughed right out of the U.N. Obama is totally setting himself up for failure by promising everything everyone wants to hear. He is so unrealistic. His worst nightmare is getting elected. The best thing for him is to make all the promises, inspire the people with his crap, get the democratic spot over Hillary, then get beat by a republican. He couldn’t ask for anything any better because then he and everyone else could always say he WOULD have done so much more, but he just didn’t get the chance.

Comment by DOMS 287 — December 7, 2007 @ 8:25 pm

My post was written before tuffy’s last post, so nothing refers to it (FYI).

Comment by DOMS 287 — December 7, 2007 @ 8:27 pm

I’m all about Romney too. He is quite impressive. I think he’s head and shoulders above the rest.

Comment by doms — December 7, 2007 @ 8:30 pm

Looks like Obama’s got it wrapped up now that he has gotten his latest spokesperson. And what a quality spokesperson it is. Now that this person is endorsing him, I must vote for him too. You gotta know that Oprah would only endorse the best person out there.

Comment by DOMS 287 — December 9, 2007 @ 7:39 am

absolutely, Oprah is the authority on everything.

Comment by jtuffy — December 9, 2007 @ 9:27 am

So what do you think, is seth stuck in bed and not able to make it to the computer to blog? Should we send over a special masseuse to remind him of his “strength”? Of course we’d have to time it just right so the masseuse shows up when he’s going to the bathroom (his preferred location of pleasure).

Comment by DOMS 287 — December 11, 2007 @ 5:16 pm

Oh man! That is too funny!!!

Comment by jtuffy — December 11, 2007 @ 10:48 pm

FELLAS!!!!

i’m back in it. i haven’t read the previous posts because they were like a week ago. now that i’ve got some time and i can squeeze the internet from my neighbor every now and then - i’m in the mood to rumble.

i’m watching the byu game right now - destruction. at least for now. its 17 to 6 now - byu. we’ll see if it lasts.

i’m all ears and will comment on all your political stuff in a bit. merry christmas.

Comment by The Scam — December 22, 2007 @ 10:39 pm

merry christmas, folks

Comment by The Scam — December 25, 2007 @ 11:06 pm